Brother Adam Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:10 PM']So, you're gonna come here and call out the debate board, then not debate, because people want to debate you????? That makes no sense. Read the posts one at a time and then respond to them.....there is no time limit. I have taken on multiple people before.....it isn't all that hard. Don't call us out, then expect us to back off.....I, for one, will not do it. You wanted a debate, I have answered your statements and so have others. If you want to discuss things without debate, go to the apologetics board, if you want to debate......respond. [right][snapback]909701[/snapback][/right] [/quote] When I go to a Baptist forum, I'm not inclined to respond to every person, when 10 people post the exact same thing. There's no point. When I came here as a Baptist I was forced to ignore a great deal or I would never have time for prayer and reflection on what was being said. She's 15 and she hasn't really shown any hostility, she's actually here learning, come on folks. Edited March 13, 2006 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 12 2006, 10:25 PM']When I go to a Baptist forum, I'm not inclined to respond to every person, when 10 people post the exact same thing. There's no point. When I came here as a Baptist I was forced to ignore a great deal or I would never have time for prayer and reflection on what was being said. She's 15 and she hasn't really shown any hostility, she's actually here learning, come on folks. [right][snapback]909713[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Age should not play a factor. And nobody here is hostile....just straighforward. And this isn't a Baptist forum..... That is fine.....don't want a debate....then don't debate.....and go ahead and ignore what you want.....but what you ignore may be the most important thing......perhaps what will be ignored will be what you say, perhaps it will be what I say, but why say it at all then something great could be missed......there is no logic in that whatsoever...... Answer the posts, that is what I say.....take each one, and respond to it.....one will only be flustered, if one tries to answer all of them at once....systematics, Adam, that is the key....do it systematically. Again, Firsttorun, if you want a debate, be prepared to debate....and it is nothing personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I am only 16. I can help translate for you if you want. It is a pretty simple concept. The saints in heaven are just our brothers and sisters in Christ who want to pray for us, just like our earthly brothers and sisters. Just because they are in heaven doesnt mean they are disconnected from the Church. They are there to pray for our intentions, just like if you would ask a friend to pray for you. No one is saying God needs help with prayers. They are just there to pray before God for us and our intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:49 PM']Age should not play a factor. And nobody here is hostile....just straighforward. And this isn't a Baptist forum..... That is fine.....don't want a debate....then don't debate.....and go ahead and ignore what you want.....but what you ignore may be the most important thing......perhaps what will be ignored will be what you say, perhaps it will be what I say, but why say it at all then something great could be missed......there is no logic in that whatsoever...... Answer the posts, that is what I say.....take each one, and respond to it.....one will only be flustered, if one tries to answer all of them at once....systematics, Adam, that is the key....do it systematically. Again, Firsttorun, if you want a debate, be prepared to debate....and it is nothing personal. [right][snapback]909731[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttorun Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:02 PM']It someone rubs you the wrong way, feel free to ignore them. Actually there is a nifty little ignore button you may feel free to use if you need to. Back on topic though, please consider what I said on the communion of the saints. It is no different than you or I praying for each other. It isn't that God needs to hear from us or needs us to pray for each other, but he wants us to. That is why the Bible specifically says that we should intercede (pray) for each other on each others behalf. [right][snapback]909699[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have to agree with you again that we are suppose to pray for one another...but please give me a referance in the Bible (as in not with the added books) where it says that the saints (as in heaven) pray Edited March 13, 2006 by Firsttorun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttorun Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:25 PM']When I go to a Baptist forum, I'm not inclined to respond to every person, when 10 people post the exact same thing. There's no point. When I came here as a Baptist I was forced to ignore a great deal or I would never have time for prayer and reflection on what was being said. She's 15 and she hasn't really shown any hostility, she's actually here learning, come on folks. [right][snapback]909713[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 14....but yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttorun Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:54 PM']I am only 16. I can help translate for you if you want. It is a pretty simple concept. The saints in heaven are just our brothers and sisters in Christ who want to pray for us, just like our earthly brothers and sisters. Just because they are in heaven doesnt mean they are disconnected from the Church. They are there to pray for our intentions, just like if you would ask a friend to pray for you. No one is saying God needs help with prayers. They are just there to pray before God for us and our intentions. [right][snapback]909737[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Once again I shall repeat...WHO SAYS THE SAINTS PRAY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Firsttorun' date='Mar 12 2006, 10:11 PM']I have to agree with you again that we are suppose to pray for one another...but please give me a referance in the Bible (as in not with the added books) where it says that the saints (as in heaven) pray [right][snapback]909752[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Revelation 5:8 [quote] And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the [b]prayers of the saints;[/b][/quote] Also, where does it say that they those in heaven don't have any idea to what is happening to their family on earth? Edited March 13, 2006 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttorun Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:49 PM']Age should not play a factor. And nobody here is hostile....just straighforward. And this isn't a Baptist forum..... That is fine.....don't want a debate....then don't debate.....and go ahead and ignore what you want.....but what you ignore may be the most important thing......perhaps what will be ignored will be what you say, perhaps it will be what I say, but why say it at all then something great could be missed......there is no logic in that whatsoever...... Answer the posts, that is what I say.....take each one, and respond to it.....one will only be flustered, if one tries to answer all of them at once....systematics, Adam, that is the key....do it systematically. Again, Firsttorun, if you want a debate, be prepared to debate....and it is nothing personal. [right][snapback]909731[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm prepared to debate...I am not ignoring anything...the fact is I've never been invovled in a debate when it's 6 against 1...or any normal debate ofr that matter...I am mainly using this as a learning experiece to expland my knowledge of the Catholic faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttorun Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 12 2006, 10:15 PM']Revelation 5:8 Also, where does it say that they those in heaven don't have any idea to what is happening to their family on earth? [right][snapback]909759[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where in the Bible DOES it says that they know what is happening to their family on earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Firsttorun' date='Mar 12 2006, 11:11 PM']I have to agree with you again that we are suppose to pray for one another...but please give me a referance in the Bible (as in not with the added books) where it says that the saints (as in heaven) pray [right][snapback]909752[/snapback][/right] [/quote] OK...... 1 Corinthians 1:2 Luke 15:10 1 John 1:3 Ephesians 6:18 I also strongly suggest that you read [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/507100.htm"]Summa Theologica (Suppl., 71) [/url]. It will also be of great help. Since you are asking a Catholic prinicple, you must understand the Catholic position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Firsttorun' date='Mar 12 2006, 10:20 PM']Where in the Bible DOES it says that they know what is happening to their family on earth? [right][snapback]909763[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Here is further explanation on Revelation 5:8 [quote] One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us. Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them! In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.[/quote] It makes much more sense to me, given where they are (heaven) that they are aware of the trials and tribulations of those on earth than that they are not given the overwhelming biblical evidence that we have. We are one body, one family in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Firsttorun' date='Mar 12 2006, 09:20 PM']Where in the Bible DOES it says that they know what is happening to their family on earth? [right][snapback]909763[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Okay I could not resist....when the brother asks send Lazarus to warn his family before they die to repent. Also prayer is essentially communicating with God. I hope that the saints pray in heaven. Back to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 12 2006, 10:26 PM']Okay I could not resist....when the brother [b]asks send[/b] Lazarus to warn his family before they die to repent. [right][snapback]909773[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [quote name='Firsttorun' date='Mar 12 2006, 11:20 PM']Where in the Bible DOES it says that they know what is happening to their family on earth? [right][snapback]909763[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where in the Bible does it say that we are to read the New Testament? The fact of the matter is that not everything related to Christianity is contained in Scripture....if that is the case, please refer me to the passage containing the explaination of the Trinity or the defintion of the filioque. As it is, the Bible is only part of the Truth. There is also Tradition and the understanding of the development of doctrine that must be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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