New book slams EWTN

[Era Might]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Mar 10 2006, 01:54 PM']The theology of the priesthood is clear - whether or not one was called to the priesthood before ordination, one is [i]clearly[/i] called after ordination.  There are homosexuals in the priesthood who feel called to the priesthood, and Fracis Mary's blanket statement excluded them from orders.  I'm not accusing Francis Mary of being a heretic, but one of his statements was (in my mind) clearly heterodox.  We all say heterodox things at one time or another, so it is excusable; the problem, though, is that he should know better.

[right][snapback]908187[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I wouldn't say one is "called" after ordination if he wasn't called before. That's why the Church has a laicization process. A Priest may continue in his role, even if he wasn't called, for practical purposes, but that doesn't mean he has now developed a true "calling" to the Priesthood.

Those men who you speak of should never have been ordained, no matter how much they felt "called".

Like I said, without knowing exactly what he said, it's hard to comment. But if all he said was that deep-seated homosexual persons do not have a calling to the Preisthood, and included women in that mix, I don't see anything "heterodox" or "heretical" about it. Perhaps he could have nuanced it better, but he was speaking on live television. It's hard to cover all ends.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
3/10 - First Friday of Lent
[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 10 2006, 11:59 AM']I wouldn't say one is "called" after ordination if he wasn't called before. That's why the Church has a laicization process. A Priest may continue in his role, even if he wasn't called, for practical purposes, but that doesn't mean he has now developed a true "calling" to the Priesthood.

Those men who you speak of should never have been ordained, no matter how much they felt "called".

Like I said, without knowing exactly what he said, it's hard to comment. But if all he said was that deep-seated homosexual persons do not have a calling to the Preisthood, and included women in that mix, I don't see anything "heterodox" or "heretical" about it. Perhaps he could have nuanced it better, but he was speaking on live television. It's hard to cover all ends.
[right][snapback]908193[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It's obvious that you feel rather strongly about this, so I apologize if I'm stepping on toes. However, I think that my statements reflect the truth of the matter. Discernment is not done only or even primarily by an individual, but by the [i]Church[/i]. At least theoretically, if the Church says that I have a vocation to the priesthood, I have one, whether I want it or not. Final confirmation that I have a vocation comes on ordination day, whether I "feel" it or not (cf. St. Augustine). The laicization process is for men who want to leave the priesthood for other ventures; it does not say that they don't have a calling. Ultimately, it's for men who fill the shoes of Judas Iscariot. There may be deep reasons why they think they need to leave the priesthood, but it is ultimately a betrayal of Christ and the Church.

My earlier comment about the Church doing the discerning should answer your second point. The Church says that these men have a calling, and that's good enough for me. Besides, if they should not have been ordained, should we not now remove them from ministry? If they don't have a calling, they shouldn't be there. But the problem is that one has a calling from Christ through the Church after ordination, whether one wants it or not. We have to stick to our commitments.

And I'll look further for the quote, but he said quite explicitly that homosexual men (nothing about deep-seated tendencies), like women, may feel called to the priesthood but really are not.

[HisChild]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Mar 10 2006, 02:03 PM']JMJ
3/10 - First Friday of Lent

It's obvious that you feel rather strongly about this, so I apologize if I'm stepping on toes.  However, I think that my statements reflect the truth of the matter.  Discernment is not done only or even primarily by an individual, but by the [i]Church[/i]. 
[right][snapback]908317[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Can I ask a question about something else? I'm sorry if I for a brief moment. But when you say the Church is who decides on the call. . . well, what if one SD tells you that you ARE called to religious life, and another says you are NOT. I've unfortunately not had to deal with that. If anything I was told I was not called to a particular community. . .but I was just wondering what your take was. If the Church is who discerns. . . and there is conflicting statements, who does one believe?

Lo siento. . .ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
3/10 - First Friday of Lent
[quote name='PCPA2Be' date='Mar 10 2006, 02:07 PM']Can I ask a question about something else?  I'm sorry if I   for a brief moment.  But when you say the Church is who decides on the call. . . well, what if one SD tells you that you ARE called to religious life, and another says you are NOT.[right][snapback]908321[/snapback][/right][/quote]
Not a problem...I think I may have myself.: When I say "the Church," I mean the local bishop. And also, ultimate confirmation comes with ordination. The way the Church discerns [i]with you[/i] is through the seminary process. That's why I think the majority of Catholic men should enter seminary - not because they necessarily think they are called to the priesthood, but so the Church can see whether they are or not.

[HisChild]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Mar 10 2006, 02:10 PM']JMJ
3/10 - First Friday of Lent

Not a problem...I think I may have myself.:  When I say "the Church," I mean the local bishop.  And also, ultimate confirmation comes with ordination.  The way the Church discerns [i]with you[/i] is through the seminary process.  That's why I think the majority of Catholic men should enter seminary - not because they necessarily think they are called to the priesthood, but so the Church can see whether they are or not.
[right][snapback]908325[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


So you're just talking about the priesthood and not religious life? (I mean, I saw that you were talking about the priesthood, I just didn't know if other forms of religious life pertained to the same premise.)

[stbernardLT]

Man you'll really know how to ruin a good discussion. This is a thread about EWTN not HWDN (homosexual & women debate network). Give a rest will you.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Mar 10 2006, 04:16 PM']Man you'll really know how to ruin a good discussion.  This is a thread about EWTN not HWDN (homosexual & women debate network).  Give a rest will you.
[right][snapback]908334[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
it's so hard to keep scholars from that sort of thing.

[mortify]

I dont get the issues over EWTN. I think its awesome. I love watching mother angelica, fulton sheen, and father benedict groeschel. The mass, litanies, and mini docs are cool too.

[photosynthesis]

I myself enjoy watching EWTN. Yes, it can be boring sometimes. Yes, the studios could use better technology + graphics. Maybe if more people donated, they'd put out better stuff. Basically, the reason why Ferrara hates EWTN is that he's broken away from the Catholic Church, is living in schism and is separated from the Church Jesus founded. He needs to go to confession and obey the Pope.

The EWTN is authentically Catholic and it is using its limited resources to spread the Gospel as best they can. I know MANY people that had no idea what Eucharistic Adoration was, and then they saw it on EWTN and they started becoming perpetual adorers. EWTN teaches people things they never knew about their faith. It provides the service of broadcasting Holy Mass to sick and elderly people who can't make it to Mass themselves. Its shows help people learn what it means to integrate the faith of the Apostles with their everyday life.

We all have our faults, and none of us are conceived without sin like our blessed mother Mary. EWTN is put on by sinners, just like everyone else. But they are relying on the grace of God, and that is commendable.

[HisChild]