Woman Rabbi teaches Relegion at Catholic school

[MagiDragon]

Yes, i can see the point, but i'm not quite sure it's accurate. (It may be, i'm not sure.) I would expect there to be a substantial amount of change from the Jewish way of thinking to the Catholic one, and i think having a Jew teach the Jewish way of thinking could be more accurate. (Again, i could easily be wrong, but it *seems* logical)

[cappie]

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI

Cologne - Synagogue
Friday, 19 August 2005

Together we must remember God and his wise plan for the world he created. As we read in the Book of Wisdom, he is the "lover of life" (11: 26).

This year also marks the 40th anniversary of the promulgation of the Second Vatican Council's Declaration Nostra Aetate, which opened up new prospects for Jewish-Christian relations in terms of dialogue and solidarity. This Declaration, in the fourth chapter, recalls the common roots and the immensely rich spiritual heritage that Jews and Christians share.

Both Jews and Christians recognize in Abraham their father in faith (cf. Gal 3: 7; Rom 4: 11ff.), and they look to the teachings of Moses and the prophets. Jewish spirituality, like its Christian counterpart, draws nourishment from the psalms. With St Paul, Christians are convinced that "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11: 29; cf. 9: 6, 11; 11: 1ff.). In considering the Jewish roots of Christianity (cf. Rom 11: 16-24), my venerable Predecessor, quoting a statement by the German Bishops, affirmed that "whoever meets Jesus Christ meets Judaism" (Insegnamenti, Vol. III/2, 1980, p. 1272).

[Era Might]

Israel is not extrinsic to the mystery of the Church. Unlike other non-Catholic religions, Judaism is already a part of that mystery. The Church's relation to Judaism is as something which is intrinsic to her own vocation. Judaism, or rather, Israel, remains a witness to the Church, first, of God's covenant of love with them, and second, of our own roots.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

another consern would be wether or not the jewsih teacher would want to convert the students.

[Era Might]

[quote]We know that every act of giving birth is difficult. Certainly, from the very beginning, relations between the infant Church and Israel were often marked by conflict. The Church was considered by her own mother to be a degenerate daughter, while Christians considered their mother to be blind and obstinate. Down through the history of Christianity, already-strained relations deteriorated further, even giving birth in many cases to anti-Jewish attitudes, which throughout history have led to deplorable acts of violence. Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians.

Perhaps it is precisely because of this latest tragedy that a new vision of the relationship between the Church and Israel has been born: a sincere willingness to overcome every kind of anti-Judaism, and to initiate a constructive dialogue based on knowledge of each other, and on reconciliation. If such a dialogue is to be fruitful, it must begin with a prayer to our God, first of all that he might grant to us Christians a greater esteem and love for that people, the people of Israel, to whom belong "the adoption as sons, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; theirs are the patriarchs, and from them comes Christ according to the flesh, he who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen" (Romans 9:4-5), and this not only in the past, but still today, "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). In the same way, let us pray that he may grant also to the children of Israel a deeper knowledge of Jesus of Nazareth, who is their son, and the gift they have made to us. Since we are both awaiting the final redemption, let us pray that the paths we follow may converge.

--Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, "The Heritage of Abraham"

[url="http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/articles/ratzinger.htm"]http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elemen...s/ratzinger.htm[/url][/quote]

[rkwright]

are we assuming the teacher can't teach objectively? isn't that the role of every teacher?

[Paphnutius]

[quote]The Church's relation to Judaism is as something which is intrinsic to her own vocation.[/quote]I will respond to both Era and Magi here.

I think that both are presuming that there is no substantial difference in ancient Judaism and modern Judaism. I would believe otherwise from the very fact that Christ fulfilled the Law in Himself. While we do share common roots as his Holiness has commented, they are just that: [i]common roots[/i].

If X is said to have a root in Y, then X must not be Y but is somehow related to Y. So modern Judaism is related to ancient Judaism insofar as it has its roots there, it is not the same.

[photosynthesis]

I've heard of St. Frances Academy... my old journalism professor wrote an article about the school:
[url="http://www.sfacademy.org/inthenews/newspaper/nyt20050522.php"]http://www.sfacademy.org/inthenews/newspaper/nyt20050522.php[/url]
it is very well known in Baltimore for its exceptional Catholic education and high success rate for underpriveleged kids who don't get many chances to succeed.

It is not unknown for comparative religion to be taught in Catholic schools, and I believe it is important for Catholic students to be taught about a variety of religious practices and cultural traditions because it helps them to know their own faith better and communicate it to others. Baltimore has a lot of Jewish people, and it's important for people to know about Judaism, just as it is important for Jews to know about Catholicism in order for there to be proper religious dialogue. If Jewish students were to learn about Catholicism in a Jewish school, I think it would be more appropriate for the class to be taught by a Catholic than by a Jewish person, so it makes sense for a class on Judaism to be taught by a Jew, even if it is a Catholic college.

I know the Oblate Sisters of Providence personally, and if they found out this teacher was teaching things that went against the Catholic faith, they'd be kicked out.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 7 2006, 01:29 AM']I will respond to both Era and Magi here.

I think that both are presuming that there is no substantial difference in ancient Judaism and modern Judaism. I would believe otherwise from the very fact that Christ fulfilled the Law in Himself. While we do share common roots as his Holiness has commented, they are just that: [i]common roots[/i].

If X is said to have a root in Y, then X must not be Y but is somehow related to Y. So modern Judaism is related to ancient Judaism insofar as it has its roots there, it is not the same.
[right][snapback]905078[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Judaism was never a meticulously defined belief system. The Pharisees and the Sadduccees disagreed markedly over core doctrines such as the ressurrection of the Body. Yet they were still Jewish.

While a lot of the cultic proscriptions of the Old Testament no longer exist, the essence of the Jewish faith remains today.

Besides that, Judaism is above all a PEOPLE rather than a religion. God's covenant with Israel is enduring. Not in a legal sense (eg, the Mosaic rituals). Rather, his covenant of love is everlasting.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 6 2006, 11:29 PM']I will respond to both Era and Magi here.

I think that both are presuming that there is no substantial difference in ancient Judaism and modern Judaism. I would believe otherwise from the very fact that Christ fulfilled the Law in Himself. While we do share common roots as his Holiness has commented, they are just that: [i]common roots[/i].

If X is said to have a root in Y, then X must not be Y but is somehow related to Y. So modern Judaism is related to ancient Judaism insofar as it has its roots there, it is not the same.
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[/quote]
Yes, i'm making an assumption that there is less difference between ancient Judaism and modern Judaism than there is between ancient Judaism and Christianity. I may be wrong, but i doubt it.

I'm afraid that's a bad analogy. Christianity doesn't take Judaism directly, but it mutates it with a fuller understanding of the truth. Thus, a more accurate one would be: If X is said to transmute Y, then . . . and the rest of the logic fails horribly once you've made that change.

Edited March 7, 2006 by MagiDragon

[Era Might]

From the Holy See's notes on presenting Jews and Judaism:

[quote]This concern for Judaism in Catholic teaching has not merely a historical or archeological foundation. As the Holy Father said in the speech already quoted, after he had again mentioned the "common patrimony" of the Church and Judaism as "considerable:" "To assess it carefully in itself and with due awareness of the faith and religious life of the Jewish people as they are professed and practiced still today, can greatly help us to understand better certain aspects of the life pastoral of the Church" (italics added). It is a question then of pastoral concern for a still living reality closely related to the Church. The Holy Father has stated this permanent reality of the Jewish people in a remarkable theological formula, in his allocution to the Jewish community of West Germany at Mainz, on November 17th, 1980: "The people of God of the Old Covenant, which has never been revoked."

[url="http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/documents/catholic/Vatican_Notes.htm"]http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elemen...tican_Notes.htm[/url][/quote]

[Era Might]

Note, however, that this does not mean Judaism is on its own path, as the same document teaches:

[quote]Jesus affirms that there shall be "one flock and one shepherd" (Jn. 10:16). The Church and Judaism cannot, then, be seen as two parallel ways of salvation and the Church must witness to Christ as the Redeemer for all, "while maintaining the strictest respect for religious liberty in line with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council declaration, Dignitatis Humanae" (Guidelines and Suggestions, no. 1).[/quote]

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 7 2006, 12:37 AM']I've heard of St. Frances Academy...  my old journalism professor wrote an article about the school:
[url="http://www.sfacademy.org/inthenews/newspaper/nyt20050522.php"]http://www.sfacademy.org/inthenews/newspaper/nyt20050522.php[/url]
it is very well known in Baltimore for its exceptional Catholic education and high success rate for underpriveleged kids who don't get many chances to succeed.

It is not unknown for comparative religion to be taught in Catholic schools, and I believe it is important for Catholic students to be taught about a variety of religious practices and cultural traditions because it helps them to know their own faith better and communicate it to others.  Baltimore has a lot of Jewish people, and it's important for people to know about Judaism, just as it is important for Jews to know about Catholicism in order for there to be proper religious dialogue.  If Jewish students were to learn about Catholicism in a Jewish school, I think it would be more appropriate for the class to be taught by a Catholic than by a Jewish person, so it makes sense for a class on Judaism to be taught by a Jew, even if it is a Catholic college.

I know the Oblate Sisters of Providence personally, and if they found out this teacher was teaching things that went against the Catholic faith, they'd be kicked out.
[right][snapback]905081[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


100 years ago Baltimore was a catholic city. I remember because it was called baltimore. and if was the first diocese that covered all of america. but i digress. comparative relegion should only be taught in a catholic school to show how to disprove it, and show how it errs and how to convert its members. frankly if i taught a class about catholicisim in a jewish school i would try to convert everyone. it is my vocation we are all called to convert all nations. so i would expect the same of any teacher of another relegion in a catholic school.

[Paphnutius]

[quote]Judaism was never a meticulously defined belief system.[/quote]Granted, but it was defined by the Law.

[quote]God's covenant with Israel is enduring. Not in a legal sense (eg, the Mosaic rituals). Rather, his covenant of love is everlasting.
[/quote]Please be careful with this. There is only one covenant, the New Covenant. The Old Covenants were all fulfilled in Christ. I am rather certain that there is at least an encyclical that speaks against the two covenants existing at the same time. I understand that you do not mean in the legal sense (rather in love as you said), but one must be very careful with this statement. I shall look for that document.

[quote]While a lot of the cultic proscriptions of the Old Testament no longer exist, the essence of the Jewish faith remains today.
[/quote]And that faith is erroneous for it denies Christ. It has its roots in the Old, but it is nonetheless false.

[photosynthesis]

i agree with Era about the peoplehood thing.. Judaism is more than a religion, it is a whole culture with all kinds of traditions people should know about.

to say that european culture is superior to all other cultures makes no sense right now. Look at Latin America and Africa. The Church is flourishing there, religious orders are growing, more men are entering the priesthood... But in Europe, the priesthood is diminishing at a dangerous pace, people have no idea what chastity is, and divorce rates are soaring. You can say, "that's because of European missionaries." But I would say that it's the result of african + latin american nations being hungry for the Gospel and open to the grace of God. That's what it takes to have a holy culture, and it isn't something reserved for Europeans.