Natural Family Planning

[thessalonian]

Well let me tell you when NFP was not okay for me. My wife and I had our fourth child and three from her previous marriage, totalling seven. A healthy number by any days standards. She was thinking it was time to slow down and so we stopped at a Catholic book store to get an NFP book. My wife had a special devotion as a new Catholic to a blessed Gianna Berretta Mola at the time. We were even going to name our 4th Child Gianna if it was a girl but he was a boy. The woman who owned the store had a poster of Blessed GBM on the store window so my wife talked to her about the woman who died rather than have an abortion to save herself, choosing to allow her child to be born instead. She had cervicle cancer. Well the woman gave my wife the poster to take home. Then my wife asked about NFP books and the woman said I think people use it for contraception and so I don't use it. My wife told the woman that our son would have been named Gianna if he had been a girl. She said "well maybe your next child will be Gianna".

Two years later we were pregnant again. It was September. In January we choose names and decided if it was to be a girl we would call her Gianna. Well on Feb 19th we found out that Pope JP II was going to canonize Blessed Gianna Berreta Molla a saint on May 16th. The due date for the baby was mid may. I am not kidding or making this up. But there is more. I've never known anyone to go to a canonization in Rome. It turns out that the Godmother for the baby was going to be in Rome in mid may and also the doctor who was to do the delivery set up a trip to go to the canonization as she had a devotion to BGBM who was a doctor as well. The Godmother left at the exact time the baby was born, 3:30 May 11 and the doctor gave birth to our baby Gianna as the last delivery she did before she left for Rome. True story.

The bottom line is if you think you need to slow down on having children and that your reasons are grave for doing so, God may see it otherwise. Little Gianna is the sweetest, cutest little girl.
Always be open to life and you will recieve a great blessing.


Blessings

Edited March 8, 2006 by thessalonian

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Mar 8 2006, 06:24 AM']Well let me tell you when NFP was not okay for me.  My wife and I had our fourth child and three from her previous marriage, totalling seven.  A healthy number by any days standards.  She was thinking it was time to slow down and so we stopped at a Catholic book store to get an NFP book.  My wife had a special devotion as a new Catholic to a blessed Gianna Berretta Mola at the time.  We were even going to name our 4th Child Gianna if it was a girl but he was a boy.  The woman who owned the store had a poster of Blessed GBM on the store window so my wife talked to her about the woman who died rather than have an abortion to save herself, choosing to allow her child to be born instead.  She had cervicle cancer.  Well the woman gave my wife the poster to take home.  Then my wife asked about NFP books and the woman said I think people use it for contraception and so I don't use it.  My wife told the woman that our son would have been named Gianna if he had been a girl.  She said "well maybe your next child will be Gianna".

Two years later we were pregnant again.  It was September.  In January we choose names and decided if it was to be a girl we would call her Gianna.  Well on Feb 19th we found out that Pope JP II was going to canonize Blessed Gianna Berreta Molla a saint on May 16th.  The due date for the baby was mid may.    I am not kidding or making this up.  But there is more.  I've never known anyone to go to a canonization in Rome.  It turns out that the Godmother for  the baby was going to be in Rome in mid may and also the doctor who was to do the delivery set up a trip to go to the canonization as she had a devotion to BGBM who was a doctor as well.  The Godmother left at the exact time the baby was born, 3:30 May 11 and the doctor gave birth to our baby Gianna as the last delivery she did before she left for Rome.    True story.

The bottom line is if you think you need to slow down on having children and that your reasons are grave for doing so, God may see it otherwise.  Little Gianna is the sweetest, cutest little girl.
Always be open to life and you will recieve a great blessing. 
Blessings
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AMEN, being open to life and letting God handle the decision making is awesome. Me and my wife have been married for four years and we are about to have our fourth child. Our house is the happiest place in the world. The goods out way the bads by about 100 to 1. We don't have a big income but God has provided "unbelievably" in all aspects of our life. NFP is about being open to life and experiencing chastity inside of marriage, anything short of this is short of Catholic teaching. Do you have you have to have a baby every year, of course not, but the fear of not being able to provide comes directly from a lack of faith. Jesus said ask and it shall be given. Anyway If we follow God's example, doesn't he have like 6.5 billion children.

[toledo_jesus]

I remember the newlyweds thread.

As I recall, nobody wanted to hear "Don't get married until you can afford it."
That's the crux of the problem...people doing what they want instead of what they ought. NFP should definitely not be used when you first start out. It should not be used simply because you have decided you have enough kids. It should only be used in grave circumstances such as poverty or some other reason someone else has probably said. If there is a pre-existing state of poverty, it is both unwise and irresponsible to get married. Yes, it is. If, however, you decide to get married without financial stability, then you should definitely go whole hog and try to have a couple kids...if not to fulfil the procreative aspect of the union, then for some sort of tax break.

And I don't want to hear any [b]sappy [/b]nonsense about marriage and sacraments and stuff like last time. Money talks, and something else walks, I can't remember what it is but I do remember it walking.

A [i]liberal [/i]priest raised the point with me about the end result of birth control and NFP being the same.

fewer babies=fewer babies=fewer babies.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Mar 7 2006, 12:00 AM']  expensive college is not a necessity of life to ever child you have.
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Though it could be argued that the money you don't spend on contraception could be used for university education since there would be no worries about having to buy contraceptive paraphernalia.

That was an amazing story! If/when I do get married, I will only use NFP when necessary, b/c I want to be open to God and I want a lot of kids. I love children and it would be cool to have a huge family reunion when their all grown, lol and have lots of grandkids to spoil. The world needs more kids, it's in places like Russia where their population is dying and in Third World countries when they are forcing women to be sterilized and abused by their husbands, when teaching them NFP could get basic education to them and their husbands (reading, counting, telling time, writing) so they could get basic jobs to support their families. many women have bad reactions to birth control in those places and can't even take care of their kids. As for the college thing, I am going to college, and if I am meant to marry and raise a family, I will. I can always have a career after my children are grown.

Edited March 8, 2006 by avemaria40

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm skeptical that the cost of not using contraception could make much difference as far as college is concerned -- but it's o.k.... the excuse that one wants their kid to be able to go to college can certainly be questioned because most people end up getting loans for that anyway. My parents couldn't really help me through college but in the end it was all right. I learned a lot about how to handle my money properly and appreciate the education that I was getting, since I footed the bill. I didn't envy my friends whose wealthy parents seemed to just send the kids away and they sat there at college seeming completely lost. It was like a twisted version of boarding school for adult children. And just as bad are parents that tell their kids what to study because the parentals are the ones paying for it...

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 8 2006, 10:39 AM']fewer babies=fewer babies=fewer babies.
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I'll concede the equation, but i think intent is a *HUGE* part of morality. Fewer babies by killing them is totally different than fewer babies by exercising self-restraint. If i intend to allow God to be in charge of my life, then *that* is the important thing. In the case of contracepting people, their very actions say "I don't care what God wants, I already know what's best." NFP used correctly says "I think i know what is best, and I'm going to act accordingly. If i'm wrong, God is still in control." The two mindsets are *HUGELY* different.

[Brother Adam]

[quote]If there is a pre-existing state of poverty, it is both unwise and irresponsible to get married.  Yes, it is.  [/quote]

Now there is COMMUNIST thinking! That is absolute hogwash. I hear the same thing from neo-nazi's, feminists, and liberals. Are you also for forced abortions and sterilization on the poor in third world countries? They are already pushing bills to force people below the poverty line to use contraception in the US. There is nothing wrong with raising children and living without wealth. what a load of carp.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Brother Adam

[MagiDragon]

hmmm . . . it did *seem* wrong when i read that, but i didn't know why. it really *IS* communist thinking.

[Brother Adam]

And that isn't an attack on you personally toledo...I was shocked to read that from you since you have always been orthodox and faithful. Perhaps you just haven't really thought it through. There are cases in which it would be irresponsible to be married, however I don't think poverty is one of them.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 8 2006, 08:45 PM']And that isn't an attack on you personally toledo...I was shocked to read that from you since you have always been orthodox and faithful. Perhaps you just haven't really thought it through. There are cases in which it would be irresponsible to be married, however I don't think poverty is one of them.
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i think i've heard that having similar genetic weaknesses could be one. any idea if that's true? it's essentially like inbreeding, but . . . less obvious.

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='MagiDragon' date='Mar 8 2006, 09:53 PM']i think i've heard that having similar genetic weaknesses could be one.  any idea if that's true?  it's essentially like inbreeding, but . . . less obvious.
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No, the Church teaches that in some cases (such as certain genetic disorders) that it is licit to use NFP and intend not to ever conceive. These are rare exceptions, but they do exist.

Igaveuppmforlent

[God Conquers]

I don't think Toledo was necessarily saying don't get married if you are in poverty. He was saying don't get married and use NFP innapropriately if you are in poverty.

If you decide to be open to children and raise them within that poverty, great, do it, what a sacrifice... for you will be making many for them.

If you are very poor so you believe you can't possibly have children, then clearly you are not open to them. So clearly you can't get married, openness to life being a main point in that.

Accusing someone of "communism" and then implying they are not orthodox and are unfaithful because of that is a wee bit much.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 8 2006, 10:31 PM']Now there is  COMMUNIST thinking! That is absolute hogwash. I hear the same thing from neo-nazi's, feminists, and liberals. Are you also for forced abortions and sterilization on the poor in third world countries? They are already pushing bills to force people below the poverty line to use contraception in the US. There is nothing wrong with raising children and living without wealth. what a load of carp. 
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figured i'd hear from you. Read my post carefully, and the one by God Conquers.

Here's my somewhat disjointed thinking. If I'm say, in college and am amassing rather large debts (I am), it would be unwise in our present day and social system to embark on the financial journey that is matrimony. That being said, should I decide to be "unwise" I would have to refrain from using NFP or my motivations for marriage would be suspect.
If I'm to trust that God will take care of me when I'm getting married too soon, then I should trust that He will not let our children starve. It seems that if a couple gets married spouting the "we trust God" bit and then decides to put off children...it's a little hypocritical.
NFP is open to life, they say, but it is still a form of control over one's body. If you're getting married too soon to be financially comfortable you should at least have a good sex life, in my opinion. And checking temperatures and fluids or whatever they do doesn't strike me as particularly spontaneous and exciting. If you're just going to refrain from sex, why not stay unmarried a little longer til you have a little more stability?

Why get married if you don't want kids immediately? Oh the obvious reason is there: free maid service. But what's in it for the woman?

If you're poor, I say don't get married til you can handle it. In order to "handle it" you need to be prepared for having children within 9 months of your honeymoon. I think it's a mistake to get married if you know you will rely on NFP immediately.

communist indeed. I never said it was wrong, just unwise.

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 8 2006, 09:55 PM']figured i'd hear from you.  Read my post carefully, and the one by God Conquers.

Here's my somewhat disjointed thinking.  If I'm say, in college and am amassing rather large debts (I am), it would be unwise in our present day and social system to embark on the financial journey that is matrimony.  That being said, should I decide to be "unwise" I would have to refrain from using NFP or my motivations for marriage would be suspect. 
If I'm to trust that God will take care of me when I'm getting married too soon, then I should trust that He will not let our children starve.  It seems that if a couple gets married spouting the "we trust God" bit and then decides to put off children...it's a little hypocritical. 
NFP is open to life, they say, but it is still a form of control over one's body.  If you're getting married too soon to be financially comfortable you should at least have a good sex life, in my opinion.  And checking temperatures and fluids or whatever they do doesn't strike me as particularly spontaneous and exciting.  If you're just going to refrain from sex, why not stay unmarried a little longer til you have a little more stability? 

Why get married if you don't want kids immediately?  Oh the obvious reason is there: free maid service.  But what's in it for the woman?

If you're poor, I say don't get married til you can handle it.  In order to "handle it" you need to be prepared for having children within 9 months of your honeymoon.  I think it's a mistake to get married if you know you will rely on NFP immediately.

communist indeed.  I never said it was wrong, just unwise.
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Man where is your faith. Infact Jesus said exactly the opposite, to follow Him we must get rid of everything including the notion that a family needs the riches of ceaser ceaser to survive instead of the riches of the kingdom of God. If he gives it to the birds why wouldn't he give it to his children. Dude, Jesus was born in a STABLE, does that make God (as His Father) a bad decision maker, of course not. It shows us a God that will provide even if it doesn't meet our standards. Marriages today usually don't last because of the love and pursuit of money at the expense of spouses, why make that your starting point. This is a very protestant (prosperity gospel) way of thinking, and that is not correct. We are united with Jeus through our suffering why not start training our family early.

**I know alot about this because I got married and had a Kid while only bringing in $800 A MONTH. I gave it up to Jesus and our family has never been without. Seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven.***

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 8 2006, 10:55 PM']figured i'd hear from you.  Read my post carefully, and the one by God Conquers.

Here's my somewhat disjointed thinking.  If I'm say, in college and am amassing rather large debts (I am), it would be unwise in our present day and social system to embark on the financial journey that is matrimony.  That being said, should I decide to be "unwise" I would have to refrain from using NFP or my motivations for marriage would be suspect. 
If I'm to trust that God will take care of me when I'm getting married too soon, then I should trust that He will not let our children starve.  It seems that if a couple gets married spouting the "we trust God" bit and then decides to put off children...it's a little hypocritical. 
NFP is open to life, they say, but it is still a form of control over one's body.  If you're getting married too soon to be financially comfortable you should at least have a good sex life, in my opinion.  And checking temperatures and fluids or whatever they do doesn't strike me as particularly spontaneous and exciting.  If you're just going to refrain from sex, why not stay unmarried a little longer til you have a little more stability? 

Why get married if you don't want kids immediately?  Oh the obvious reason is there: free maid service.  But what's in it for the woman?

If you're poor, I say don't get married til you can handle it.  In order to "handle it" you need to be prepared for having children within 9 months of your honeymoon.  I think it's a mistake to get married if you know you will rely on NFP immediately.

communist indeed.  I never said it was wrong, just unwise.
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But that is not what you said or implied. To state that if one is in poverty that it is irresponsible to get married, than indeed that is a communist ideal. And of course you'll hear from me when you spout satanic doctrines. Expect nothing less.