being divorced

[thessalonian]

[quote]Sojourner and Quietfire must be called out. You have heard the Truth spoken. You have no excuse not to repent. It would be helpful to those of us trying to save your souls if you would recant publically. [/quote]

Called out on what? Quietfire is working toward resolving her situation as best she can. That is commendable and God is patient. As I understand it she was not Catholic when she entered the relationship and perhaps somewhat unknowing. She hasn't given all the details and says she has an option that will allow her not to wait for the anullment. I won't speculate what that is though I see some possibilities. I think as long as she is moving in the right direction we should be gentle.


I had a private discussion with Sojourner which I will not divulge but she perhaps could have expounded a bit on the situation. I don't agree that it is a cause for rejoicing, however there is some reason to hope for ignorance in the case. If she chooses to give you more details she may.

I recommend your prayers for both situations.

Edited March 9, 2006 by thessalonian

[Quietfire]

wow, I leave for a day and I enter what seems to be a born again situation. REPENT or thou shalt not be saved child!!
Ok, a little levity.

Since you (CF) do not know the pertinent details of my situation I understand what you are saying and in fact you are somewhat off here, but I thank you for the sincere sentiment to repent, as I have and am still doing everyday.

To expound on my last post a bit without too much personal info since I really dont think that this is the best place, being Dairy's poll thread and all, I will try to illuminate the situation for you. Again, I am leaving out alot of detail since it would then turn into my conversion story and thats not what this is in reference to.

[i]I CAN be received in the Church but NOT partake in Holy Communion as of right now[/i], because of my husband's situation. Yes, he is divorced. No, she (his ex) never had any intention of a lasting marriage, even when she was walking down the aisle and Yes, she walked out and persued a divorce 7 weeks after saying I do. My husband never retained a lawyer because he opposed the divorce. She went through with it anyway. He [u]can[/u] persue an annulment, (he has grounds) but has not done so as of yet. (but Im praying) for reasons that are none of your business (like I said, he has issues too and Im not airing his laundry here since I have no right to do so)
Was I aware of "marrying a married man" or that I was a partner of mortal sin when when I walked down the aisle to exchange vows with the man of my dreams? No.

Am I Catholic? Yes. I have for 2 years made it clear that I was baptised Catholic...but I was not raised in any particular faith so I went to church around the corner from my home...dont know the denomination, and also attended [i]any[/i] church with [i]any[/i] friend who invited me (which is alot of church's) Because of that, I have always thought of myself simply as a Christian, never understanding that there were different 'facets' that went with the different names of Protestantism.

But, after being on this board for a short while, it was made clear to me that I am, in fact, Catholic..because of my baptism but also because of desire. I came here with an open mind and heart and never looked back. I was already interested in the Church before I got here, but PM has given me more information and knowledge of the Church and therfore more profound understanding of God than any single book I could have read. And although I had planned on waiting a while longer; God. who in his infinite mercy, patience and love would have nothing of it and I suddenly found myself talking to a priest about how quickly I could start RCIA to be received. I could go on but that is the jist of it.

Ok, back on subject....

[i]I can[/i], (according to the Sister who is preparing me to be recieved), [i]not only be received but also receive Holy Communion[/i] without waiting for my husband to persue an annulment by way of another process. *I honestly cannot remember what she called it but basically it is this...my marriage would be blessed by the Church through [i]me[/i] which in turn would allow me to receive Holy Communion. My husband, on the other hand, still cannot receive Holy Communion until he receives an annulment.* I would not be in mortal sin and because I fill the certain conditions for this process, it has been made available to me.

In the end you must remember one very important thing, which I have learned to understand myself.
The Church's main goal is to bring souls to Christ. She will not profane God in that process. She will though, do all that is possible for a repentent soul to become one with the body of Christ , the Church, if that person honestly and humbly seeks it. That is her mission.
The Church has diened(said) that I am ready to be received and, if I choose to, may receive Holy Communion without my husband having an annulment as explained above.

I, on the other hand, have asked to go through RCIA. Sister feels that I may not really need it, but I still wish to at least start it to prepare myself. I will not go into the 'why' at this time. I have no doubts, if that is a concern. Sister is aware of my intentions and she has been most helpful, and I am grateful that God has placed her near me on my path. She has also told me that she will do all that she can to help me.

Class begins in fall but I will be sitting in with the current class as of this Sunday, and after that class ends at Pentacost I will sit down again with Sister Mary.

I hope this has been of some help.

Pax

[thessalonian]

I have to say QF that I find it very odd that you can have a marriage blessed through one partner and that it can be blessed without the husband recieving an anullment. I agree that there is cause for the anullment if his ex divorced after 7 weeks but this does not sound right at all to me. Marriage is where a man and a woman become one. Currently you have no marriage and you can't make a half a marriage by having one side of the equation blessed. I have to say the dear sister is wrong in what she is planning for you. Sorry. I must say that you are somewhat vulnerable to being led down the wrong path in this situation because you so badly want to be in full communion with Church. I continue to keep you in my prayers.

Edited March 9, 2006 by thessalonian

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Mar 9 2006, 02:10 PM'][i]I can[/i], (according to the Sister who is preparing me to be recieved),  [i]not only be received but also receive Holy Communion[/i] without waiting for my husband to persue an annulment by way of another process.  *I honestly cannot remember what she called it but basically it is this...my marriage would be blessed by the Church through [i]me[/i] which in turn would allow me to receive Holy Communion.  My husband, on the other hand, still cannot receive Holy Communion until he receives an annulment.*  I would not be in mortal sin and because I fill the certain conditions for this process, it has been made available to me. [right][snapback]907395[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[i]Please[/i] doublecheck this point with another priest, preferably one on this board like FrPontifex or Cappie. This does not sound right. The way I remember it, if he is not in a sacramental marriage to you, neither are you in one to him. Either both parties are in a sacramental marriage or neither are, as far as I am aware, but I will stand corrected if church authorities correct me.

[Quietfire]

I will double check.
I will get back to you on this.

Thank you.

[the flutehonker]

eek! I have so much to learn. So far this post has made me extremely scared of ever getting married.

[jmjtina]

Although every case is different, after investigation, if there are no grounds for an annullment, then you could NOT remarry.

You cannot undo a sacrament.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Amator Veritatis' date='Mar 7 2006, 06:14 PM']I am not aware of the divorce laws in America or anywhere else for that matter, but as far as I understand, the party against which a suit of divorce has been brought is required at least to consent to the divorce. Am I correct?
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[/quote]

I'm not so sure about that. It might vary from state to state, but the situation with Bud and Bai Macfarlane touches upon this very issue concerning divorce procedures in Ohio, and may be the case in many places where the couple is put on a fast track to divorce, even if one spouse doesn't want it. She is now campaigning for the laws to be reformed. I don't know what the situation is with them personally, and it's probably best not to speculate about what went on to cause the marriage crisis in the first place. But the no-fault divorce laws certainly are something worth calling into question.

[Peccator]

Reading all this...I'm glad I'm not getting married ...(no disrespect meant off course) Hope verything works out QF.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Peccator

[ruso]

Slight subject.
My mother this married with a divorced man, the truth is that they are happy and I do not want to judge them.
The eclesial divorce has many failures, an addict friend to the gambling in therapy, say everything to your wife before the wedding and
he not was playing during its marriage, when separating the Church granted her the divorce to him alleging that he was a compulsive gambler.
I know abused women without possibility of obtaining the divorce, by the sight the Church does not give many possibilities to those who are mistaken of pair.
Although the doctrine is clear, it has many failures applied to the real life.

[Sailahína]

I'd probably pray about it, God might not have wanted me to marry. He might have another vocation for me

[goldbug16]

I [i]would not remarry [/i] unless, I had been anulled, because [i]no matter what the other person[/i] is doing you are both [i]still in a covenant[/i], made before God. Period.

[HisChild]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Mar 10 2006, 01:41 AM']I'm not so sure about that. It might vary from state to state, but the situation with Bud and Bai Macfarlane touches upon this very issue concerning divorce procedures in Ohio, and may be the case in many places where the couple is put on a fast track to divorce, even if one spouse doesn't want it. She is now campaigning for the laws to be reformed. I don't know what the situation is with them personally, and it's probably best not to speculate about what went on to cause the marriage crisis in the first place. But the no-fault divorce laws certainly are something worth calling into question.
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wait. . .did I miss something on the first page of this post? Bud's getting divorced???

[HisChild]

[quote name='Amator Veritatis' date='Mar 7 2006, 06:14 PM']I am not aware of the divorce laws in America or anywhere else for that matter, but as far as I understand, the party against which a suit of divorce has been brought is required at least to consent to the divorce. Am I correct? [right][snapback]905833[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
First, and I can only state with clarity the laws where I live, it does not matter if the other person consents to the civil divorce or not. . .the proceedings might take longer but if one person wants out of a marriage, and can state their case as to why, the courts will not make another person remain civilly married to their spouse. Even if the respondent was unable to be found to even be served papers, after a reasonable effort was made, notices put in the paper, etc, the hearing would proceed to take place.

[quote name='musturde' date='Mar 7 2006, 09:50 PM']Okay that makes no sense tho. Sorry if I don't understand this but how on earth can you not be on grounds for annulment if your wife left you and remmarried. That doesn't make sense. If she's cheating on you, that doesn't qualify divorce? Seriously, i think a priest would be OUT OF HIS MIND if he was to say that this isn't on the grounds of annulment... Would these two people really be meant to be in Gods eyes if one of them refuses to stay with the other? Wouldn't that qualify for annulment in itself?  I just can't understand this, can someone explain it. I have a feeling the Church is far more compassionate than this.
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A priest does not grant an annulment, the Church tribunal does. When one person goes to a Tribunal representative, seeking an annulment, there is, which varies slightly from diocese to diocese, a several page document that the applicant fills out, regarding their life before, during and after the marriage. The questions are incredibly personal, asking for instances of abuse, whether it's mental, physical, sexual, alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc., The questionnaire also asks for things such as your spiritual life, your spouses spiritual life, your Church activities, if you have children, and if not, was that a decision made by one or the other parties, etc. Truly, it's quite probing as to the state of your relationship before, during and after the marriage. Once that's filled out, your spouse is mailed a similar form in response, which they can refuse to fill out, ignore, or respond. You also are required to give names of several witnesses who knew you before, during and after your marriage (after, because you can't even formally apply until you are civilly divorced). Then, once all this is filled out and returned, a fomal Tribunal is convened. What that usually means, is that all this information is copied and sent to all the members of the Tribunal (one of the reasons the Church asks for money, to offset all these costs for copying, postage, etc.) The members read through the information pertaining to your case, and ultimately see if, according to canon law, your marriage was valid. Was there mental illness, were you coerced into marriage, is one member refusing to have children, did you marry without due discretion?

Finally, once that decision is reached, it is sent to a second diocese, as the Court of Second Instance. That Tribunal thoroughly goes over the information and the decision reached by the Tribunal Court of First Instance, and either renders the same decision, or reaches their own conclusion. Finally, when those two courts have reached an agreement, the parties are sent word of the verdict.

In the end, it's not about being nice or compassionate, it's about being Catholic. It sounds harsh, but, while I am sure Her heart aches for both parties, just because one party refuses to stay with another, it is not grounds for annulment. And, there are many things that were 'meant to be' in God's eyes, but as we all have free will, we err, we sin, we go astray from His will, from what He would will.

God bless you and I hope I helped.

Edited March 21, 2006 by PCPA2Be