being divorced

[Amator Veritatis]

I am not aware of the divorce laws in America or anywhere else for that matter, but as far as I understand, the party against which a suit of divorce has been brought is required at least to consent to the divorce. Am I correct? If this is the case, the person has the option of never consenting to the divorce initially. As far as the situation posed, and assuming that both parties need not consent, as has already been stated, to remarry would be a mortal sin. Even a widow (or a widower) is better served remaining in unmarried simply because it is a higher state, as is attested by Our Lord Himself, Saint Paul and every Saint who spoke on the matter. The person who is in such a position ought to offer whatever his sufferings may be to God in reparation for his sins and for the penalties due to them. He should accept his cross and recognise that the chaste life is more pleasing to God and more conducive to perfection. Consequently, he should live a life of solitude and prayer, growing in virtue and the love of God.

[Socrates]

Christ Himself condemns divorce and remarriage.

[quote]"It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery" (Matt. 5:31-32).

"And there came unto him Pharisees, trying him, and saying, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh? So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery" (Matt. 19:3-9).

"And there came unto him Pharisees, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? trying him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of the creation, Male and female made he them. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh: so that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house the disciples asked him again of this matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her: and if she herself shall put away her husband, and marry another, she committeth adultery" (Mark 10:2-12).

"Every one that putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth one that is put away from a husband committeth adultery" (Luke 16:18). [/quote]

[Paladin]

Now there is such a thing as a civil divorce, and the Church does recognize that. Say you have a man that's become abusive and refuses to get any treatment for it. The wife would be prudent to separate and seek a legal divorce. But, just because you're not married under state law doesn't mean you're not married under ecclesastical law. So she'd remain a wife to the abusive husband in the Church's eyes, but for civil purposes, she'd be single.

[musturde]

Okay that makes no sense tho. Sorry if I don't understand this but how on earth can you not be on grounds for annulment if your wife left you and remmarried. That doesn't make sense. If she's cheating on you, that doesn't qualify divorce? Seriously, i think a priest would be OUT OF HIS MIND if he was to say that this isn't on the grounds of annulment... Would these two people really be meant to be in Gods eyes if one of them refuses to stay with the other? Wouldn't that qualify for annulment in itself? I just can't understand this, can someone explain it. I have a feeling the Church is far more compassionate than this.

[dairygirl4u2c]

If you were to take the quotes by soc, and disregard the CCs teaching and christian norms, much like social norms, I'm not sure those passages say all remarriages are bad. I'm not just talkin about those that happen to be annullable. I mean the fact Jesus said who ever puts away his wife, who ever divorces the spouse is the one who did bad. The one who decided to leave.
But I honestly don't have much of a stand on this. Just thought I'd throw that out there food for thought.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='musturde' date='Mar 7 2006, 09:50 PM']Okay that makes no sense tho. Sorry if I don't understand this but how on earth can you not be on grounds for annulment if your wife left you and remmarried. That doesn't make sense. If she's cheating on you, that doesn't qualify divorce? Seriously, i think a priest would be OUT OF HIS MIND if he was to say that this isn't on the grounds of annulment... Would these two people really be meant to be in Gods eyes if one of them refuses to stay with the other? Wouldn't that qualify for annulment in itself?  I just can't understand this, can someone explain it. I have a feeling the Church is far more compassionate than this.
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You do not understand anullments. "What GOD has JOINED let NO MAN put asssunder". That even means men and women who get married cannot separate it. Now this joining takes place when the vows are made AT the marriage. However they are only legitimate if both sides do them freely and honestly with the proper intent that the marriage be permanent, that there is no coersion or forcing of the marriage, that both sides are giving themselves solely to one another, and that there is an intent by both partiest to bear children in the marriage. If these conditions are not met then the covenant of marriage, which is above a contract, is not valid. The tribunal does not determine if the marriage is "currently" invalid. It tries to determine if at the time of the marriage the proper conditions existed. Now infidelity or divorce later in the marriage may mean one of two things. The proper formation of the person did not at the time of the marriage allow them to make a valid marriage covenant and so the marriage was invalid or the person fell in to sin. The former was not ever really a marriage, the latter was.

A marriage covenant is as I said like a contract but with even greater responsibility. If one side or another enters in to a contract with certain expectations, i.e. that the other intends to have children for instance and later it is found out there is no such intent (this was the case in my first marriage. My ex told friends of ours she hated kids and never wanted any. She told me she did so that I would marry her) then the covenant was never formed.

Hope that helps.

Blessings

[thessalonian]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:25 PM']If you were to take the quotes by soc, and disregard the CCs teaching and christian norms, much like social norms, I'm not sure those passages say all remarriages are bad. I'm not just talkin about those that happen to be annullable. I mean the fact Jesus said who ever puts away his wife, who ever divorces the spouse is the one who did bad. The one who decided to leave.
But I honestly don't have much of a stand on this. Just thought I'd throw that out there food for thought.
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All marriages that are in fact a covenant, freely entered by both parties with honesty are in fact logically and scripturally bad. See my explanation above. A marriage is a contract with greater responsibility. Logically if the contract is entered under false pretense and deception it was never valid in the first place. This is simple natural law.

[Didacus]

1. I would literally rather die than get divorced.

2. Should my wife leave me; I would not remarry. And that's final.

3. My wife actually shares my opinion, such that if she left me she would not remarry.

4. I admit it would be very difficult for me to live a celibate life.


My wife has an aunt and her husband was a severe acoholic who beat her and her children. For the sake of her children, she left him and I belive it was the right choice. She has been living celibately since leaving her husband for over 30 years and she has not regrets.

Its not to say she didn't want to remarry or date or other. It is that she respected the fact that although her husband is unfaithful and thus she had to leave him, her marriage remained binding before God. (drinking yourself to the point of stupidity and beating your family is a form of unfaithfulness in my opinion and dare anyone to say I'm wrong)

She is an great person, and a joy to speak with. Now that's its been 30 years or so after her leaving her husband she openly talks about it, although I am certain it was not easy at the time and for a long time thereafter. She is an inspiration to me and my wife, not for us to leave each other of course, but to know how important marriage really is and how much we have to be there for each other and to live our vocations to their fullest. Regardless what we choose, God will always be there with us and for us.

[MagiDragon]

I might get remarried if she died . . . but i really doubt it. *grins wryly* 'tis an odd thing, but i'm already loyal to the person i marry, and i'm not even engaged yet!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='musturde' date='Mar 7 2006, 10:50 PM']Okay that makes no sense tho. Sorry if I don't understand this but how on earth can you not be on grounds for annulment if your wife left you and remmarried. That doesn't make sense. If she's cheating on you, that doesn't qualify divorce? Seriously, i think a priest would be OUT OF HIS MIND if he was to say that this isn't on the grounds of annulment... Would these two people really be meant to be in Gods eyes if one of them refuses to stay with the other? Wouldn't that qualify for annulment in itself?  I just can't understand this, can someone explain it. I have a feeling the Church is far more compassionate than this.
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An annulment is based on the situation at the time of the wedding vows. What happens after that, can be an indication of what could have been wrong at the start of the marriage, but not necessarily sufficient grounds for annulment.

[Catholic Fanatic]

Sojourner and Quietfire must be called out. You have heard the Truth spoken. You have no excuse not to repent. It would be helpful to those of us trying to save your souls if you would recant publically.

Sojourner, you need to stop your encouragement and belief that the remarriage would make you happy. You are aiding in mortal sin and committing it yourself with your belief and aid. Quietfire, you need to do the same with your beliefs, and with your actions. If the anullment stands, so be it. But don't use the wait and see method where you never check as a way to continue in mortal sin. As it is, you are in mortal sin. Stop relations with the man and living a lie. God's sacrament cannot be broken, and He is calling you away from the life of mortal sin that you are living.

Unless you both repent, Christ will say he never knew you. You will be bound up and cast into eternal damnation, where the fires will literally melt your skin and maggots will eat at your eyes. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. You will not be released until you have paid the last penny.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Catholic Fanatic

[Azriel]

Nice, very nice.

BTW - we can't save souls, only God.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Catholic Fanatic' date='Mar 9 2006, 10:43 AM']Sojourner and Quietfire must be called out. You have heard the Truth spoken. You have no excuse not to repent. It would be helpful to those of us trying to save your souls if you would recant publically.

Sojourner, you need to stop your encouragement and belief that the remarriage would make you happy. You are aiding in mortal sin and committing it yourself with your belief and aid. Quietfire, you need to do the same with your beliefs, and with your actions. If the anullment stands, so be it. But don't use the wait and see method where you never check as a way to continue in mortal sin. As it is, you are in mortal sin. Stop relations with the man and living a lie. God's sacrament cannot be broken, and He is calling you away from the life of mortal sin that you  are living.

Unless you both repent, Christ will say he never knew you. You will be bound up and cast into eternal damnation, where the fires will literally melt your skin and maggots will eat at your eyes. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. You will not be released until you have paid the last penny.[right][snapback]907262[/snapback][/right][/quote][quote name='Azriel' date='Mar 9 2006, 10:45 AM']Nice, very nice.

BTW - we can't save souls, only God.[right][snapback]907265[/snapback][/right][/quote]
i echo Azriel. very nice

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Catholic Fanatic' date='Mar 9 2006, 10:43 AM']Sojourner and Quietfire must be called out. You have heard the Truth spoken. You have no excuse not to repent. It would be helpful to those of us trying to save your souls if you would recant publically.
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Methinks you have good intentions . . . but you're a bit harsh and that's gonna drive people away. I think these two are both honestly trying to come to terms with things. Sometimes that's a slow process. We can't judge the people, only their actions. In this case, we only know of the actions they have revealed to us, and i think they understand the import of those actions.

Be patient, be kind. Without these things, you cannot be a good instrument.

[Theoketos]

Let me put a new prespective on your question Diary... Basically what you are asking is: If you had a vaild marriage, but your spouse refused to acknowledge it, would you commit adultry?

The answer should be no.

Just because one person rejects reality does not mean that every one gets to as well. Further even if everyone rejects reality it does not mean that reality has fanished.