1 Tim. 2:5

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Can someone explain what Jesus meant when He said, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus?" This is always the verse that Protestants use when arguing against the practice of praying to Mary and the saints. I understand why we can pray to the saints in heaven, I'm just having trouble explaining what this particular verse means and when considering this verse, we can call Mary the Mediatrix of all graces.

I had one Catholic tell me that Mary and the saints mediate between us and Jesus and that Jesus mediates between us and God. Is that true?

Edited March 6, 2006 by Gal. 5:22,23

[Paphnutius]

Christ is the only mediator between man and God. This was accomplished by His sacrifice on the cross. When we pray for the saint's and Mary's intercession they appeal to the sacrifice of Christ. It is through Christ that His Body, the Church, is able to interceede for others. It is not necessarily that the saints mediate between us and Christ, and then Christ to God. It is that the saints appeal to what has already been done through Christ. This could be likened to asking your brothers and sisters to go with you to ask your mom something because you know that your mom will mediate between you and dad. The siblings did not mediate between you and your mother, but instead they aided you in your plea.

Edited March 6, 2006 by Paphnutius

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22' date='23,Mar 6 2006, 01:32 PM']Can someone explain what Jesus meant when He said, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus?" This is always the verse that Protestants use when arguing against the practice of praying to Mary and the saints. I understand why we can pray to the saints in heaven, I'm just having trouble explaining what this particular verse means and when considering this verse, we can call Mary the Mediatrix of all graces. 

I had one Catholic tell me that Mary and the saints mediate between us and Jesus and that Jesus mediates between us and God. Is that true?
[right][snapback]904191[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Protestants do not understand the Bible, nor the concept of covenantal mediation. Moses, David, Abraham, all mediated old covenants. Jesus is the one mediator of the new covenant. It is that simple, and Catholics affirm this verse in the Bible 100%.

There is also a difference between intercession (what we ask Mary and the saints for, which Paul esteems us to offer up) and the mediation of a covenant.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22' date='23,Mar 6 2006, 02:32 PM']Can someone explain what Jesus meant when He said, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus?" This is always the verse that Protestants use when arguing against the practice of praying to Mary and the saints. I understand why we can pray to the saints in heaven, I'm just having trouble explaining what this particular verse means and when considering this verse, we can call Mary the Mediatrix of all graces.[/quote]
the very fact that they use this argument shows that they have no clue what mediation is. ask yourself, "what is the 'mediation' of Christ? in what sense is Jesus the 'mediator' between God and man?" a mediator is one who speaks or acts on behalf of another, or one who brings estranged parties to agreement. that is essentially what Jesus does. he reconciled man to the Lord "once for all" b/c we could not, and he continues to mediate by communicating the Lord's graces to man. no christian in his right mind would disagree with this.

now, if this is indeed how we understand the mediatorship of Jesus, why in the world do protestants use this verse to refute praying to the saints?? the saints do not perform the function of Christ. they are not mediators. they do not reconcile God with man or communicate his graces to us (at least not in the [i]direct[/i] way that Jesus does, more on "subordinate mediation" here shortly).

when we pray to the saints, we are soliciting their prayers. we hope to capitalize on their wisdom and virtue, which creates perfect prayers to the Lord. "the prayer of the righteous availeth much." even when we say things like "St. Joseph, help me to be a good father" or "St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle" we know that they answer our prayers not by their own power, but either by the power that the Lord gives them, or by the Lord himself answering the prayers of the saints.

essentially, the saints are more like [i]intercessors[/i] than mediators. what is an intercessor? a few definitions:[list][b]Intercession:[/b] A form of the prayer of petition made to God on behalf of others, whether living or departed. --[i]Catholic Dictionary[/i]

[b]INTERCESSION.[/b] Entreaty in favor of another person; hence mediation. In biblical language, "there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus, who sacrificed himself as a ransom for them all" (I Timothy 2:5-6). The Blessed Virgin, Mediatrix of all graces, the angels, saints in heaven, souls in purgatory, and the faithful on earth intercede for mankind by their merits and prayers. --[i]Pocket Catholic Dictionary[/i]

[b]intercession:[/b] The going between two parties in order to plead before one on behalf of the other. In ecclesiastical usage the office of Mediator belongs primarily to Jesus Christ (Timothy 1; Hebrews 7). The Blessed Mother, Mediatrix of all Graces, the angels, the blessed in Heaven, the souls in Purgatory and the faithful on earth can intercede for us sinners by their prayers and merits. --[i]1910 New Catholic Dictionary[/i]



[/list]see the difference? it is an important one. also, read New Advent's [b][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08070a.htm"]article on Intercession[/url][/b]. it does an excellent job of explaining the difference between "mediation" and "intercession"


[quote]I had one Catholic tell me that Mary and the saints mediate between us and Jesus and that Jesus mediates between us and God. Is that true?[right][snapback]904191[/snapback][/right][/quote]
this is true, but i don't find it helpful in apologetics. they will simply respond by saying that since the curtain of the temple has been torn down by Jesus' death on the cross, we have direct access to the Lord. of course, there is a response to that argument too, but don't get into it unless you have to.

also, earlier i mentioned "subordinate mediation." this is what the saints in heaven [i]and on earth[/i] participate in. thankfully, this is nowhere nearly as heretical as it sounds. ask yourself this: what is going on in these verses?

[b]Rom 11:13-14[/b]
[b]13 [/b]Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
[b]14 [/b]in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

[b]1 Cor 7:16[/b] Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?

[b]1 Cor 9:22[/b] To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[b]1 Tim 4:16[/b] Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

[b]Jas 5:20[/b] let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

[b]Jude 1:22-23[/b]
[b]22 [/b]And convince some, who doubt;
[b]23 [/b]save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

what we have here are [i][u]men[/u] [b]saving[/b][/i] other men. but........but........Jesus is our only Savior!!!! He is the one mediator between God and man!!!!!!!!!!!! such replies are stubborness in the face of what Scripture says. we clearly see here that men can save, so this can only mean that there must be some legitimate way in which the saints participate in our salvation without usurping the role of Christ. this legitimate way is "subordinate mediation." by "subordinate" we mean that it is secondary and instrumental, vs. the work of Christ, which is primary and efficient. in other words, it is ultimately Christ who saves all, but he also chooses to use men as instruments to bring about the salvation of others. so, for instance, when you compel someone to be baptized, Jesus saves that man, but, in a sense, you have saved him too.

its all about the Lord working for good [i]with[/i] those who love him.

i hope that helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[jswranch]

Check out "Answer to Anti-Catholic James G. McCarthy on Co-Redemptrix."

www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num48.htm

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Thank you very much for your replies. I had a feeling it would come down to the meaning of the word "mediator."

[cappie]

I've snipped a few passages from the Lumen Gentium, an official document of the Church from Vatican II. It is often quoted by Evangelicals for its" Queen of Heaven" statement. I think the document accurately make clear Jesus' authority over heaven and earth:

60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, "for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all." (298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows his power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. (298 1 Tim. 2, 5-6).

62. ...For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, ...The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary.

67. .. But it exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.(23*) Following the study of Sacred Scripture, the Holy Fathers, the doctors and liturgy of the Church, ... rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety.