Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 05:29 PM']yes the NO mass is valid. I defiently think it is inferior though. [right][snapback]904379[/snapback][/right] [/quote] On who's authority do you make that statement, Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Mar 6 2006, 05:26 PM']But the NOM is [i]valid[/i] Sam. You know that...even if you do prefer the Latin Mass. Kristina [right][snapback]904372[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Correct, and has been shown that preference is NOT a right, but a privelege. One has a right to the Sacraments, but not to the Sacramental action of one's choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 So again I ask you, Sam....... Why attend an SSPX Mass when a [b]valid and licit Mass[/b] is offered in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I even prefer the Latin Mass, but I don't think (actually I know) there is nothing wrong that Cam42 even says is valid and licit! Why one would go to an illicit mass vs. a licit mass, I don't know. I would rather listen to the pope then an excommunicated bishop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 6 2006, 05:03 PM']On what authority do you make this statement about the various churches in union with Rome, Sam? I see women cover their heads at the parish I go to. I have spoken to in the past about the irreverence which can and has been applied to the Tridentine Mass. And how do you know what the true faith is Sam? It is for the Church to determine, not any one indvidual. We, as individuals, are to assent to the Faith of Jesus Christ contained in His Church. By making the statement that you are making, you are coming very close to adhereing to the schism by which you claim doesn't exist. Let's not forget, "Where there is Peter, there is the Church." We owe our full obedience to him and his successors. By attending an SSPX Mass, for any other reason, other than ABSOLUTE necessity, of locale; then one is not being obedient to [i]Motu Proprio Eccelsia Dei.[/i] [right][snapback]904419[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Needless to say Cam your parish is not the Average American Parish. No women cover their heads in my parish, or in any parish i have ever been too (quite a few) except at the TLM. Not to say women at the NO do not cover their heads, but the vast majority do not. When i say "the true faith" I mean that the SSPX will have a sermon that is more Catholic than many Novus Ordo Parishes that I have been to: I have been told many lies by heretic priests at the NO (not to say all NO priests are heretics, far from it) but it seems many NO priests do not defend the faith from the Pulpit. i hate sermons about bieng nice. [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 6 2006, 05:04 PM']On who's authority do you make that statement, Sam? [right][snapback]904422[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have no Authority. But i have been to both masses, and i have studied them (to some extent) i am not as knowledegabe as yourself obviously. Many FSSP have misgivings about the NO mass. are they schismatic too? [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 6 2006, 05:09 PM']So again I ask you, Sam....... Why attend an SSPX Mass when a [b]valid and licit Mass[/b] is offered in the area? [right][snapback]904427[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I will attend an SSPX mass because it fufills my sunday obligation. Notice Perl did not say that if you can not get to a mass in full communion you may go to the SSPX mass. He said it does fuffill your sunday obligation although He would not recomned it. I will go to the mass that preaches the true faith from the pulpit. the NO masses around here do not have good sermons, where as many i have talked to say the SSPX masses have good sermons that talk of the Catholic faith. I prefer Latin and i have the option (accrouding to Perl) to go to the SSPX mass. I have had bad experiences with abuses at the NO masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 6 2006, 06:09 PM']So again I ask you, Sam....... Why attend an SSPX Mass when a [b]valid and licit Mass[/b] is offered in the area? [right][snapback]904427[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How do we know that Novus Ordo's are valid when THE VERY WORDS OF OUR LORD ARE CHANGED AND TRUE THEOLOGY OF THE MASS IS NO LONGER BEING TAUGHT? The Liturgies of the Word and Eucharist are given equal importance... the list goes on and on... Any sane Catholic would know that attending a sacreligious (and supposedley licit) mass of doubtful validity is far less pleasing to God than to attend a definitely valid Mass without any sacrilege. Tell me this Cam, yes or no: May we in conscience, and according to the CCL may we recieve sacraments that we know could be of doubtful validity? This would include doubtful form, matter, and intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 6 2006, 06:50 PM']How do we know that Novus Ordo's are valid when THE VERY WORDS OF OUR LORD ARE CHANGED AND TRUE THEOLOGY OF THE MASS IS NO LONGER BEING TAUGHT? The Liturgies of the Word and Eucharist are given equal importance... the list goes on and on... Any sane Catholic would know that attending a sacreligious (and supposedley licit) mass of doubtful validity is far less pleasing to God than to attend a definitely valid Mass without any sacrilege. Tell me this Cam, yes or no: May we in conscience, and according to the CCL may we recieve sacraments that we know could be of doubtful validity? This would include doubtful form, matter, and intention. [right][snapback]904624[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i agree brendan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 08:02 PM']i agree brendan. [right][snapback]904647[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Once again, it's great to have you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 its good to see a fellow teenage trad. Brendan guess what? i am attending an Independent chapel next week. its going to be trad central. well first i have to make sure its not sede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 08:13 PM'] its good to see a fellow teenage trad. Brendan guess what? i am attending an Independent chapel next week. its going to be trad central. well first i have to make sure its not sede. [right][snapback]904668[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Give me the information, and I'll check it out. By the way you can fulfill your obligation there. I think it was Cardinal Mayer who said: "You may fulfill your obligation ANYWHERE where the Roman Rite is celebrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 The Mans name is Bishop Jospeh Macek. hes thuc line so his ordination and consecration are valid. he has a chapel in florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 07:49 PM']Needless to say Cam your parish is not the Average American Parish. No women cover their heads in my parish, or in any parish i have ever been too (quite a few) except at the TLM. Not to say women at the NO do not cover their heads, but the vast majority do not. When i say "the true faith" I mean that the SSPX will have a sermon that is more Catholic than many Novus Ordo Parishes that I have been to: I have been told many lies by heretic priests at the NO (not to say all NO priests are heretics, far from it) but it seems many NO priests do not defend the faith from the Pulpit. i hate sermons about bieng nice. I have no Authority. But i have been to both masses, and i have studied them (to some extent) i am not as knowledegabe as yourself obviously. Many FSSP have misgivings about the NO mass. are they schismatic too? I will attend an SSPX mass because it fufills my sunday obligation. Notice Perl did not say that if you can not get to a mass in full communion you may go to the SSPX mass. He said it does fuffill your sunday obligation although He would not recomned it. I will go to the mass that preaches the true faith from the pulpit. the NO masses around here do not have good sermons, where as many i have talked to say the SSPX masses have good sermons that talk of the Catholic faith. I prefer Latin and i have the option (accrouding to Perl) to go to the SSPX mass. I have had bad experiences with abuses at the NO masses. [right][snapback]904618[/snapback][/right] [/quote] My parish is the typical American parish. When you say "true faith," you cannot mean the SSPX and be catholic. In order to have true faith, one must submit totally to the pontiff. One cannot simply pick and choose what one wants to believe. The SSPX does not have any authority to preach. They are suspended. So far Sam, you have not given any answer which is acceptable as to the reasoning why you should attend an SSPX Mass as opposed to a Mass in union with Rome. [quote]I have no Authority.[/quote] That's right.....you have no authority. You have no right to demand what you are demanding. You have no leg to stand on. You have no argument which can be accepted EXCEPT to say that you will submit to Rome. If you do not, you are adhereing to a schism. [quote]Many FSSP have misgivings about the NO mass. are they schismatic too? [/quote] No, because the FSSP submits to the authority of the pontiff. You have admitted that you will not, by attending a Mass celebrated by a schismatic. If you attend an SSPX Mass, knowing that you can attend a Mass which is in union with Rome, you are treading very close to [i]involuntary doubt.[/i] You do not have the option to go to an SSPX Mass. You are INTENTIONALLY misinterpreting his words. This is a typical SSPX tactic. This view does not stem from a ''true understanding of traditionalism." The last statement that you made is a statement of [i]involuntary doubt.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 08:19 PM']The Mans name is Bishop Jospeh Macek. hes thuc line so his ordination and consecration are valid. he has a chapel in florida. [right][snapback]904683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Father Joseph Macek, joined the Society of the Virgin Mary and was conditionally reordained using the pre-Vatican Council II rite in Beckley, WV on December 18, 1998 by Bishop Patrick Taylor. Father Joseph Macek, was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Patrick Taylor, SVM, in Beckley, WV on Nov. 18, 1999. Bishop Joseph Macek, consecrated a bishop (conditionally) by Bishop Merril Adamson (Thuc Lines) in San Francisco, CA on Nov. 27, 2001. Holy Family Traditional Roman Catholic Church 3385 Wickham Rd., Melbourne, FL 32935 Bp. Joseph Macek, (321) 242-7744 Independent, SU 9 & 11 am, Holydays, M-SA 9 am Edited March 7, 2006 by brendan1104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 ill have to call him and ask him some questions. the SVM website says he is not a member of the SVM anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 6 2006, 08:29 PM']ill have to call him and ask him some questions. the SVM website says he is not a member of the SVM anymore. [right][snapback]904698[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He's friends with an independent bishop, Terence Fulham. I don't think he's sede. Edited March 7, 2006 by brendan1104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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