Ora et Labora Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 i prefer it...you know i do. but i dont attend sspx to go to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 actually, i just sang at it today. gregorian chant rocks y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 08:02 PM']maybe one prefers the TLM [right][snapback]903733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So, for example, say there was a hypothetical church that denies some article of the Faith, but still offers the TLM -- the logic you purport would allow for a person to attend that church.... can we accept that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 the SSPX denies no article of the faith. it is disobidient. and according to ecclesia Dei, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 09:27 PM']the SSPX denies no article of the faith. it is disobidient. and according to ecclesia Dei, yes. [right][snapback]903761[/snapback][/right] [/quote] One does not have to deny an article of the faith in order to be schismatic. One simply has to refuse to submit to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. It seems that you have an incorrect view of what schism is. It is disobedience that can also lead to excommunication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I am fully aware of what schism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 10:00 PM']I am fully aware of what schism is. [right][snapback]903790[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why then would you openly go a Mass that is celebrated by one who adheres to a schism, when a licit Mass is being offered, and is accessable? What is the draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 because the i apparently have the right to do so. and i prefer the old rite. I get more out of it. I also think that the licit masses you speak of (at least where I am) are riddeled with liturgical abuses. sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 09:12 PM']because the i apparently have the right to do so. and i prefer the old rite. I get more out of it. I also think that the licit masses you speak of (at least where I am) are riddeled with liturgical abuses. sam [right][snapback]903803[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='Cam42']Again, you have a right to the Sacraments, but you [b]don't[/b] have a right to the Sacraments of your own choosing.[/quote] That means you cant choose to go to an older rite which is celebrated by SSPX simply because you like it better. It doesnt matter if the licit mass has abuses, you must attend it over the SSPX if it is offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 According to the Ecclesia Dei Letter that Cam posted and the Earlier one i posted, you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 10:12 PM']because the i apparently have the right to do so. and i prefer the old rite. I get more out of it. I also think that the licit masses you speak of (at least where I am) are riddeled with liturgical abuses. sam [right][snapback]903803[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And that is not sufficient. You have a right to the Sacraments. You don't have the right to pick what Mass you go to. That is the error of the SSPX. You don't have the authority to make such a judgment, Rome does. You go to the Mass that Rome dictates as valid and licit. That is the Missa Normativa. You may go to an indult Mass, if you so desire, however, this must fall in line with the directives of Rome. An SSPX Mass does not accomplish that. [quote name='Quattuor Abhinc Annos']1.There must be unequivocal, even public evidence that the priest and people petitioning have no ties with those who impugn the lawfulness and doctrinal soundness of the Roman Missal promulgated in 1970 by Pope Paul VI. 2.The celebration of Mass in question must take place exclusively for the benefit of those who petition it; the celebration must be in a church or oratory designated by the diocesan bishop (but not in parish churches, unless, in extraordinary instances, the bishop allows this); the celebration may take place only on those days and in those circumstances approved by the bishop, whether for an individual instance or as a regular occurrence.[/quote] To attend a Mass that is not approved by Rome is disobedient. It is not to be done unless there is dire need. Again, for the Nth time today, it is on the same level as attending an Orthodox Liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 10:28 PM']According to the Ecclesia Dei Letter that Cam posted and the Earlier one i posted, you are wrong. [right][snapback]903825[/snapback][/right] [/quote] A Mass celebrated by the SSPX is not an indult. You may only attend Mass from the SSPX when there is NO OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE. You are bordering on obistinancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 correct me if I am wrong: the letter says: I. One may go to an SSPX mass AS LONG AS one does not wish to seperate one's self from Rome, and one is not supporting the schism. you Say: I. Only go to an SSPX if there is no other mass. i see disagreement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The only way to not support the schism is by going out of grave circumstance only. It does not matter what one's preferences are. If you go simply because you do not like the Novus Ordo, you are rejecting the licit mass of the Church and attending a schismatic mass instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 can one be in schism and be in complete fullness of the Faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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