Eucharist

[ayed]

In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Gracious

Very well , I hope you be

I have never ever went in a church .Based on your doctrine, you believe in Jesus incarnates on Eucharist.There must be a hidden secret.Do you want people to call you”Jesus-devourers”?I am sure that you do not.Any way, I will “interrogate” you if it were to say , to divulge the secret in the Holy Communion. Are craving and ready to start with me?Let us begin :

Suppose the priest holding a chalice brimmed with wine and intincting wafers of wheat bread in , do you really feel that Jesus is existent ?Do you eat and drink it?Or do you see Jesus walking around you?Is there an exact date to hold this occasion?

Please , support your answers with evidence.

Accept my greetings,

Ayed4all@hotmail.com

[JP2Iloveyou]

Ayed, this has been taught since as soon as Jesus left earth from the earliest teachings of the apostles. The best way I can sum up what we believe is this. A validly ordained priest, using valid form (the EXACT words of institution of the Eucharist) and valid matter (grape wine and wheat bread) literally and physically changes the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. So, you are correct when you say we as Catholics believe we are truly consuming the flesh of Christ when we receive the Eucharist. There have been so many miracles of consecrated hosts that it would take forever to mention them. As a matter of fact, there is a rather large book documenting many Eucharistic miracles. Anyway, hosts have bled, visually changed to flesh and blood, cured people of illnesses upon their reception. I heard a 1st person account of a priest who was taking Communion to a dying woman. He put two in the pyx (what the Eucharist is carried in) and took it to this woman. He did not however know her family was going to be there. When he opened the pyx up to his surprise there were four hosts in the pyx.

Personally, I've never seen Jesus walking around as I consume the Eucharist, but perhaps someone else has. I also heard a priest tell a story about once when he was offering Mass. He said there was a very powerful light that he could see radiating from the host as he consecrated it.

[Jake Huether]

Ayed,

May the Peace of Christ be with you, brother.

Once you accept that God could become a man, then it should simply fall into place that God could also make bread and wine into himself.

No, normally we don't see a little Jesus' walking around on our hand when we recieve the Eucharist (like a gingerbread man...hahaha). We believe in Transubstanciation.

That is: The substance of the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus. The substance of bread is different then the accidents. The accidents are the taste, smell, feel, molecular structure, etc. So, scientifically it would appear to be only bread. But in reality, it is Jesus. The substance of something makes it what it is.

[geetarplayer]

ayed, peace be with you.

The Eucharist is one of those topics of debate that hardly any person (even Catholics) can explain how or why. It is one of the Mysteries of the Universe. And indeed, ayed, some people do perceive Catholics as cannibals (humans who eat other humans), but that is a very literal way of thinking.

God bless you, ayed.

-Mark

[hyperdulia again]

the incarnation happened in the womb of blessed mary ever-virgin.

the incarnation happens today in bread and wine.

god made the world and thought it was all "very good," so he has no problem joining the tangible world of sight, touch, and taste.

[ayed]

In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Gracious

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Mr.JP2Iloveyou AND Mr.Jake , thank you very much for your comment .Let us resume our debate:

They might watched a sort of hallucinations or illusions.Who knows?

(Jake) :” Once you accept that God could become a man, then it should simply fall into place that God could also make bread and wine into himself.

(Ayed): Allah tells us about Himself in the Holy Qur’n :

“The Creator of the heavens and the earth He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates By this means He creates you (in the wombs) There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer”(42:11)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions :

1-Did Jesus(peace be upon him) command you to do so?

2-Have you ever beheld Jesus’ face or heard his voice on any Eucharist?

Accept my greetings,

Ayed4all@hotmail.com

[foundsheep]

Ayed,

Jesus instructs us to do just that on our new testament of the Bible. But he reiterates it more in John chapter 6.

[phatcatholic]

ayed,

as to ur second question--have we ever seen his face or heard his voice in the eucharist--i would say the majority have not. only through a special miracle would something like that occur. in our day-to-day reception of the eucharist, it appears to us to be merely a wafer. but in all actually it is much more--it is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ.

again, just as jake said, the accidents (what we make of it thru use of our five sense) are bread and wine. but the actual substance of it is Jesus Christ, our Lord.

[ZmeFly]

Hello and peace be with you,

When Jesus Christ himself told his followers in our bible that we would have to Eat his body and drink his blood to have eternal life the majority of the people rejected the teaching. We belive that Jesus is God the second person in the Holy Trinity( we belive God consists of 3 persons as one, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) therefore we belive that God can do this if he so wishes.

His own apostles were appalled at the teaching and Jesus turned to him and asked"Will you leave me too?" Jesus didn't deny what he said was true. His Apostles too faith and said "To Whom shall we go?"

It wasn't untill the last supper(and the First Mass) that the Apostles understood.

Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it and said "This is my Body, Then taking up wine and saying "This is my Blood". When Jesus said these words he performed a miracle by taking the Bread and pronouncing it his body and the wine as his blood.

He then instructed us to do this in memory of him.

Edited December 19, 2003 by ZmeFly

[angelica]

1-Did Jesus(peace be upon him) command you to do so?

2-Have you ever beheld Jesus’ face or heard his voice on any Eucharist?

Peace be with you, ayed,

Some of the above posts have already answered your first question, so I will try to help answer your second question. Like phatcatholic said, the majority of people have not seen his face or heard his voice in the Eucharist. However, as JP2Iloveyou already said, there have been times that Jesus has performed and allowed Eucharistic miracles to happen so we could believe in his Real Presence. There are many and I will point out one, in particular the JP2Iloveyou mentioned, where "hosts have bled, visually changed to flesh and blood."

The Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, Italy 8th Century A.D in the little Church of St. Legontian. To give you a quick summary of this miracle, what happened was that a monk was doubting the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Well he prayed and prayed to God to help him believe. One day he was giving Mass and he was consecrating the bread and wine to become the Body and Blood of Jesus when the bread and wine actually changed into live physical flesh and blood! This same flesh and blood (it has coagulated ) can actually be observed today in Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese in the same church in Lanciano. You can click HERE

or type this in- http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html to read about this miracle. You said:

They might watched a sort of hallucinations or illusions.Who knows?

As I said, we know that miracles like these are neither hallucinations or illusions because they are observable facts--as it says on the "therealpresence" website,scientists have studied and verified this miracle:

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena... The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs...it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

There have been explanations about the Eucharist that can help us come to a better understanding of the True Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. Here is one below:

In the book The Most Blessed Sacrament, the author, Fr. Stephano Manelli, O.F.M., tells of one conversation about the Eucharist between a Mohammedan and a missionary bishop.

"How is it possible," an educated Mohammedan asked a missionary bishop, "that bread and wine should become the Flesh and Blood of Christ?"

The bishop answered, "You were small when you were born. You grew big because your body changed the food you took into flesh and blood. If a man's body is able to transform bread and wine into flesh and blood, then God can do it far more easily."

The Mohammedan then asked: "How is it possible for Jesus to be wholly and entirely present in the little Host?"

The bishop answered, "Look at the landscape before you and consider how much smaller your eye is in comparison to it. Now within your little eye there is an image of this vast countryside. Can God not do in reality, in His Person, what is done in us by way of a likeness or image?"

Then the Mohammedan asked, "How is it possible for the same Body to be present at the same time in all your churches and in all the consecrated Hosts?"

The bishop said, "Nothing is impossible with God and this answer ought to be enough. But nature also answers this question. Let us take a mirror, throw it down on the floor and let it break into pieces. Every piece can carry the same image that the whole mirror formerly reproduced. Likewise, the self-same Jesus reproduces Himself, not as a mere likeness, but as a reality, in every consecrated Host. He is truly present in each one of Them" (page 38)

This same book states other Eucharistic miracles: "one could cite those great witnesses of faith and love which are the Eucharistic Congresses and the celebrated Eucharistic shrines (such as those at Turin, Lanciano, Siena, Orvieto, and the shrine of St. Peter of Patierno), shrines that even today offer worthy, up-to-date testimony of astonishing events of the past confirming the Real Presence" (page 39).

The Creator of the heavens and earth has so much love for his children that He will even make himself little enough to fit in a small piece of bread and a cup of wine so that as we receive him, we will become more and more truly like him.

"He must increase, but I must decrease."-St. John Chrysostom

Your questions and gracious greetings are thankfully accepted,

angelica

[ayed]

In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Gracious

Mr.FounSheep , Phatcatholic and Hyperdulia again , Geetraplayer and Zmefly thank you for your responses.

(Anglica):”…a monk was doubting the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Well he prayed and prayed to God to help him believe. One day he was giving Mass and he was consecrating the bread and wine to become the Body and Blood of Jesus when the bread and wine actually changed into live physical flesh and blood..”

(Ayed):Mr.Anglica, thank you so much for your contribution .What is the name of the monk?

As long as Jesus did not command you to do so, then you only hold this event relying on only a human experience.

Give me at least one verse from your books?

Accept my greetings,

Ayed4all@hotmail.com

[foundsheep]

Ayed,

peace be with you,

Here is a verse from The bible,the new testament, the book of John Chapter 6 verses 51 through 56

51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

52

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"

53

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

[foundsheep]

Here are the places in the Bible that Christ himself shows us how:

Matthew 26:26-28

26

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body."

27

Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,

28

for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:22-24

22

While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is my body."

23

Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24

He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed 8 for many.

Luke 22:19-20

19

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."

20

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.

[bookofjohn]

Peace Ayed

I believe that the verses provided by foundsheep is more than enough to prove that Jesus exist in the Eucharist and also ask us to consume Him.

There is a book called "Eucharistic Miracles" by Joan Carrol Cruz.

AMAZON : Eucharistic Miracles (Joan Carrol Cruz)

Anyway, I am eating an apple now.. can you taste it? Is it sour? sweet? bitter? salty? Haha. This may sound silly but it's of the same principle. You can never know the taste of something that you have never tasted, right? Same thing with the Eucharist. As in the book of Psalms, "Taste and know the Lord is good..", I believe that was one of the prophecy about the Eucharist in the Old Testament

By the way, the Catholic Church is the only religion established by God Himself, which is Jesus Christ and it is only fitting that whatever the Church teaches conforms to what Christ wanted us to learn. And the Bible is a book compiled by the Catholic Church, and what it writes inside will never contradict what the Church teaches.

There are quite a number of websites that features Eucharistic miracles, just type the keywords[Eucharistic Miracles] and you will find it.

I hope my answer would be satisfactory to you.

Bookofjohn.

[foundsheep]

Welcome Bookof john, dont forget to check in in the open mic section.