Cardinal Mahoney and immigrants

[cmotherofpirl]

Immigrants Gain the Pulpit
The Los Angeles Times reports today:

Wading back into the growing debate over illegal immigration, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony on Tuesday denounced what he called "hysterical" anti-immigrant sentiment sweeping California and the nation.

In an interview on the eve of Ash Wednesday, Mahony said he planned to use the first day of the Lenten season to call on all 288 parishes in the Los Angeles Archdiocese, the nation's largest, to fast, pray and press for humane immigration reform. U.S. Roman Catholic bishops support proposals for a guest-worker program, legalization of undocumented immigrants and more visas for migrants' families.

Mahony also criticized efforts by the Minuteman Project and other immigration control groups to police the border, saying that such efforts were a misguided reaction to national security concerns.

"The war on terror isn't going to be won through immigration restrictions," he said, adding that Al Qaeda operatives would not trek through miles of deadly desert to infiltrate the nation...

In his most forceful comments to date, Mahony said he would instruct his priests to defy legislation — if approved by Congress — that would require churches and other social organizations to ask immigrants for legal documentation before providing assistance and penalize them if they refuse to do so. That provision was included in the immigration bill recently passed by the House of Representatives; a similar proposal is in the version that the Senate Judiciary Committee plans to begin debating this week.

[full story]

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:19 AM']"The war on terror isn't going to be won through immigration restrictions," he said, adding that Al Qaeda operatives would not trek through miles of deadly desert to infiltrate the nation...
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With all due respect to the Cardinal, I think he underestimates Al Quaeda.

There is a Salvadoren gang, MS-13, which is very active around here. The members largely come up from Central America through Mexico, smuggling drugs and weapons. The FBI has linked them to Al Quaeda.

We have to be humane to illegal immigrants, but we can't do so blindly. Terrorism is real today, and Al Quaeda will use any crack they can to get in.

Of course, the Cardinal is right when he encourages us not to ignore illegal immigrants among us. They are here, and we must treat them like human beings. The important thing is that we secure the border so that we don't have people streaming over, and good people can come here legally.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]"The war on terror isn't going to be won through immigration restrictions," he said, adding that Al Qaeda operatives would not trek through miles of deadly desert to infiltrate the nation...[/quote]

That's the same kind of reasoning that would say, "they wouldn't go on suicide missions. That would be silly. Who would want to undergo harm for a terrorist mission?"

[toledo_jesus]

[quote]Mahony said he would instruct his priests to defy legislation — if approved by Congress — that would require churches and other social organizations to ask immigrants for legal documentation before providing assistance and penalize them if they refuse to do so. That provision was included in the immigration bill recently passed by the House of Representatives; a similar proposal is in the version that the Senate Judiciary Committee plans to begin debating this week.[/quote]

He's absolutely right about this. Government has no authority to tell churches what to do, and vice versa. I don't want immigrants, illegal or otherwise, to sign a gov't form to get some help through the local parish. That's pushing it.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:24 AM']With all due respect to the Cardinal, I think he underestimates Al Quaeda.

There is a Salvadoren gang, MS-13, which is very active around here. The members largely come up from Central America through Mexico, smuggling drugs and weapons. The FBI has linked them to Al Quaeda.

We have to be humane to illegal immigrants, but we can't do so blindly. Terrorism is real today, and Al Quaeda will use any crack they can to get in.

Of course, the Cardinal is right when he encourages us not to ignore illegal immigrants among us. They are here, and we must treat them like human beings. The important thing is that we secure the border so that we don't have people streaming over, and good people can come here legally.
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The vast majority of undocumented immigrants come here with no designs to harm us. They want to make a better life for themselves and their families just as immigrants before them have done. Making immigration policies based on a few bad apples isn't reasonable.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 1 2006, 01:20 PM']The vast majority of undocumented immigrants come here with no designs to harm us. They want to make a better life for themselves and their families just as immigrants before them have done. Making immigration policies based on a few bad apples isn't reasonable.
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Their intentions do not justify their illegal entrance. The US has the right to protect its borders, even if the only people coming across are peaceful and harmless.

That said, I should say that I'm all for amnesty for those already here and for allowing more immigrants who are willing to work hard.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Mar 1 2006, 01:41 PM']Their intentions do not justify their illegal entrance.  The US has the right to protect its borders, even if the only people coming across are peaceful and harmless.

That said, I should say that I'm all for amnesty for those already here and for allowing more immigrants who are willing to work hard.
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I agree. Much better to be properly documented than not. And in fact, many immigrants DO have documentation when they arrive and lose their legal status after their visas expire.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 1 2006, 01:20 PM']The vast majority of undocumented immigrants come here with no designs to harm us. They want to make a better life for themselves and their families just as immigrants before them have done. Making immigration policies based on a few bad apples isn't reasonable.
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Let's personalize it.

If homeless people continually broke into into your basement every night, to get out of the cold, would you shrug it off and say "they don't mean us any harm, they just want to get out of the cold"? Would you be scared for your safety? Why? Because you think that most homeless people are dangerous? No, it would be because the idea of strange people entering your house without permission or supervision is scary.

This is illegal immigration, in a nutshell. We have no idea who is coming through our borders. Think about that for a second. We have NO idea who these people are. In the age of terrorism, this is a chance we cannot take.

We can work hard to make it easier for immigrants to come legally, but we must seal the border. Bill O'Reilly calls for the National Guard to protect it. That may not be a bad idea, IMO.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might

[toledo_jesus]

They work for wages snooty americans won't touch and keep us competitive with China.
I'm willing to devote more resources to tracking them down if we stop paying factory workers too much and give up the material goods like iPods, cell phones and the like that even the "poorest" American seems able to afford.

I just think it's funny we have so many people going to college, and now we have a glut of doctors and lawyers. We're going to have janitors who can suture a wound or argue fine points of Constitutional law.

[Era Might]

The exploitation of illegal immigrants is terrible. I don't know how these employers can sleep at night, honestly.

I'm not anti-immigrant, by any means. My concern isn't so much with the immigrants who are here (except that we don't know who they are). If we can somehow verify their past, let them stay, regularize them, and end the exploitation, that would be great

My concern is with the borders. The illegal stream has to stop.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might

[Ash Wednesday]

I agree with Era Might. We do need to secure our borders. The MS-13 gang really freaks me out for a lot of reasons. On the flip side, the U.S. and Mexico need to remedy the situation so that immigrants won't NEED to come to the U.S., at least illegally.

Maybe someone who understands politics a little better than I do can explain why Mexico isn't improving their own conditions well enough so that Mexicans wouldn't need to sneak across the border?

That's where I get irritated.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 1 2006, 02:18 PM']They work for wages snooty americans won't touch and keep us competitive with China. 
I'm willing to devote more resources to tracking them down if we stop paying factory workers too much and give up the material goods like iPods, cell phones and the like that even the "poorest" American seems able to afford.

I just think it's funny we have so many people going to college, and now we have a glut of doctors and lawyers.  We're going to have janitors who can suture a wound or argue fine points of Constitutional law.
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Not altogether true.

Unemployment is low enough that many employers have to pay competitive wages, even for lower-skills positions. This isn't always the case, obviously, but it is true more often than not.

Interesting little factoids:
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, of the 27 million positions projected to be created betweeen 2002 and 2012, nearly half are expected to be held by workers who have a high school diploma or less. Only 12.5 percent of native-born Americans age 25 and older lacked a high school diploma in 2003, compared to 32.8 percent of foreign born. Clearly, we're creating a large number of jobs for which Americans will by and large be overqualified.

Only one of the five categories of visas for permanent immigration status, only one is for less-skilled workers, and that's capped at 5,000 per year.

Think undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes? Think again. Currently, the Social Security Administration has on hand $420 billion (that's billion with a b) which can't be matched to the appropriate employee accounts. That number has gone up exponentially in the past few years, most likely due to undocumented immigrants using purchased Social Security numbers because there aren't enough visas to match the demand for unskilled workers.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 02:32 PM']The exploitation of illegal immigrants is terrible. I don't know how these employers can sleep at night, honestly.
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We don't just exploit undocumented immigrants, unfortunately. Employers sometimes hold immigration status over documented workers.

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 02:32 PM']I'm not anti-immigrant, by any means. My concern isn't so much with the immigrants who are here (except that we don't know who they are). If we can somehow verify their past, let them stay, regularize them, and end the exploitation, that would be great

My concern is with the borders. The illegal stream has to stop.
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OK, I get that. Good analogy, too, with the homeless thing.

[Socrates]

No one claims that all, or even most, immigrants are coming here with evil or destructive intentions. Still, absolutely unrestricted immigration, in the U.S. or any other country, is a stupid policy.

And Card. Mahoney is one of the most corrupt and heterodox bishops in this country. He needs to stop allowing and supporting heresy, dissent, and immorallity in his own archdiocese before he'll have any moral credibility.

[kateri05]

wow. finally proud of something my bishop has said.


i think that's kinda sad.