Lil Red Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:12 PM']4. None of the above.[right][snapback]901223[/snapback][/right][/quote] [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:16 PM']what is your position then? care to respond to the rest of my post?[right][snapback]901225[/snapback][/right][/quote] [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:59 PM']btw, i would still like a response to the rest of my earlier post pax christi, phatcatholic[right][snapback]901258[/snapback][/right][/quote] ironmonk, are you going to respond at all to phat's post? considering he's the one with the most authority to speak on this subject considering his education, can't you at least give him the consideration to respond to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 The theory that, in some cases, depression has something to do with stuff happening in the body has been demonstrated. Ironmonk is correct about the power that a simple choice can have in overcoming depression. But many times the choice to stop being depressed is not so cut and dry. What I mean is that a number of different choices might need to be made to fight it. It could be a combination of making the choice to get more exercise and to simply stop thinking negatively about one's life. Or it could simply mean that we need to confront a destructive, sinful behavior with the choice to stop it. It really depends on the person, and teachings and writings founded upon the philosophy and theology of the Church can be a very useful guide in discovering the exact nature of the choice that one needs to make to deal with depressing feelings and sensations. I didn't read all of Ironmonk's posts but what I think I'm getting from him is simply the belief that God's grace, primarily that which is offered by the sacramental ministry of the Apostles, is enough to overcome any difficulty one might be facing. This is true of course if God actually thinks it's good for someone to remove their particular difficulty; because it may be the catalyst for that person's sanctification. I often feel depressed. This comes to me in different forms and usually manifests itself in my body before long. Sometimes a simple choice is enough to dispel the storm I feel inside; sometimes I choose to contiunue to feed the storm with negative thoughts. Sometimes I will read something and I will be completely healed and feel great joy inside and am able to easily share my joy with others. But very often joy is ellusive. It's in those times when I realize that God is asking me to die to myself and promote joy and peace among others that I personally do not feel. That is true self-giving, and it is as hard as a cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 It appears that our "one man scripture and catechism machine" has a few files missing from his programming. Specifically: 1) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:03 PM'][b]The Wrong Outlook....[/b] I hate not having a job. [b]The Right Outlook[/b] I am greatful for another day of being able serving God. [right][snapback]901152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and: [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:03 PM'][b]The Wrong Outlook....[/b] I just lost my job and it wasn't my fault, what am I going to do? How am I going to pay my bills. [b]The Right Outlook[/b] I now have an opportunity to do something better. God's will be done. [right][snapback]901152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] forgets what the Bible states about "those who will not work should not eat" (in one of the Thessalonians) and the exhortation that we should all pursue honest employement so that we will be in a position to help others less fortunate (I believe this is in Ephesians), as well as the fact that someone may have a family (spouse, children, elderly/disabled parents) to support. 2) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:03 PM'][b]The Wrong Outlook....[/b] I want a girlfriend/boyfriend, I won't be happy until I have one. [b]The Right Outlook[/b] I want to live the way God wants me too, if it is my vocation to be married, then God will provide. [right][snapback]901152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] sounds too much like the micromanaging puppeteer of hyper-Calvinism and ignores: a) The teaching of the bible on celibacy and marriage in 1 Cor. 7, one of the Timothys, and Jesus discourse about those who remain celibate for the kingdom (I think it is in Matthew). It can be paraphrased and summarized as follows: if you cannot handle celibacy, get married (provided of course that one is eligible to get married). b) The Catechism, in the section on marriage, says that the vocation to marriage was instilled into the very nature of [i]all[/i] mankind in the beginning. c) The Catechism, in the section about rights and duties of parents and children, states that children should not be pressured in their free choice of their state of life. Key concept: state of life is [i]our free choice[/i]. 3) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:03 PM']We can change anything we want about ourselves, but we have to want to. The minute we say we "can't" then we bring failure on ourselves. [right][snapback]901152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ignores the fact that in relationships we are only one half of the equation. There are a lot of people who actually do work hard to change things, only to have the other party not reward them like they should. You cannot put the blame on someone who works his nose to the grindstone if the employer reneges and refuses to pay the wages they owe the worker, or on a good chaste Catholic who is rejected by a fellow chaste Catholic for a fornicating pagan partier. There are only 168 hours in a week; at some point in time the worker has to get paid for his work, and not just 10 cents on the dollar. Now I understand that some of our desires can be selfish - James speaks of this in I believe chapter 3 - but I fail to see how wanting to put a roof over your family's head and feeding and clothing them and seeing to their safety; how a kid wanting abuse to stop; how a woman not wanting to be raped or who wants the nightmares to stop; or how someone who knows they cannot handle celibacy seeks marriage when the Bible tells them to is a selfish desire. Would you tell the widows in Acts who spoke Greek and complained about being neglected that they were not right with God or had the wrong outlook? The apostles didn't. [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:44 PM']Maybe you should start thinking about how to improve yourself in God's eyes instead of bashing others who supposedly have "the wrong outlook" because they are suffering? It seems that you are being a bully in this thread and not really considering what other people have to say. [right][snapback]901241[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think what Ironmonk needs to do is learn what life is like "on the other side of the tracks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 [quote name='Norseman82' date='Mar 2 2006, 01:53 PM']Now I understand that some of our desires can be selfish - James speaks of this in I believe chapter 3 - but I fail to see how wanting to put a roof over your family's head and feeding and clothing them and seeing to their safety; how a kid wanting abuse to stop; how a woman not wanting to be raped or who wants the nightmares to stop; or how someone who knows they cannot handle celibacy seeks marriage when the Bible tells them to is a selfish desire. [right][snapback]901570[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree--good point. It's not selfish to desire things like providing for your family, holy marriage, friendships, a normal family life. And I can definitely identify with wanting abuse to stop and things like that.. When a person is being raped/abused I don't think it's wrong for their first reaction not to be "YAY! WOOHOO! Another chance to share in Christ's humiliations! Joy!" obviously surviving abuse *is* a chance to share in His sufferings, but we believe in the Lord who hears the cry of the poor, and it is normal and natural to feel pain and even anger because something bad is happening to you. I'm unemployed, and I'm trying to take it as an opportunity to serve God in a different way. I really do enjoy having the freedom to spend more time in prayer + volunteer service. But I'm not going to lie to you--unemployment really smells of elderberries. I have no money, my bank account is in the negatives, and if my family wasn't supportive, I'd probably be lying in a ditch somewhere with a college degree and no job. Life has its ups and its downs. If someone asks me, "how's the job search going" I"m not going to lie and say "IT'S AWESOME! I LOVE being unemployed!" and deny that being unemployed has many disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Let's be real clear here kids There is a HUGE difference between feeling depressed and clinical depression Its like calling me a master chef because I can make hamburgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole8223 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Mar 2 2006, 02:51 PM']Let's be real clear here kids There is a HUGE difference between feeling depressed and clinical depression Its like calling me a master chef because I can make hamburgers. [right][snapback]901641[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Can you make me a hamburger, Oh powerful Master Chef hot stuff? PS...HI!!! Edited March 2, 2006 by Nicole8223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Mar 2 2006, 12:51 PM']Its like calling me a master chef because I can make hamburgers.[right][snapback]901641[/snapback][/right][/quote] but, i heard your burgers are so wonderfully awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Can I have one with swiss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 how about with tillamook cheddar coagulated milk??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 [quote name='Norseman82' date='Mar 2 2006, 02:34 PM']Can I have one with swiss? [right][snapback]901679[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='Lil Red' date='Mar 2 2006, 03:00 PM']how about with tillamook cheddar coagulated milk??? [right][snapback]901697[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [b]Ding Ding[/b] ORDER UP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nature, Nurture And The Risk Of Depression Some people are more than twice as likely to become depressed as others, given similar circumstances, according to landmark research from Brain Sciences UNSW (University of New South Wales). The paper, which has just been published in the British Journal of Psychiatry, has found more than a fifth of the population has a genetic predisposition to depression, in response to a series of stressful life events. Brain Sciences UNSW represents researchers from the University of New South Wales (UNSW) and its affiliated research institutes and teaching hospitals including the Prince of Wales Medical Research Institute, Black Dog Institute, Garvan Institute of Medical Research, St Vincent's Hospital and Prince of Wales Hospital. The researchers based their findings on DNA samples of a group of 127 people who have been monitored for over 25 years for depression onset and major life events. 42 percent met criteria for lifetime major depression. "We have been following a group of school teachers who graduated in 1978," said the lead author of the paper, UNSW Associate Professor of Psychiatry Kay Wilhelm, who is based at St Vincent's Hospital in Sydney. "We've been catching up with them every five years since, to see if there has been any onset of depression and if there have been any major life events." "There is an 80 percent chance that those with the genetic predisposition will become depressed, if there are three or more negative life events in a year," said the geneticist on the paper, Professor Peter Schofield, who is Director of the Prince of Wales Medical Research Institute (POWMRI). "This contrasts with some people who have genetic resilience against depression," said Professor Schofield. "Even in similar situations, there's only a 30 percent chance of them becoming depressed." There are three different genetic types in the population. 21 percent of people have the genotype that predisposes them to depression 26 percent of people have the genotype with resilience to depression 53 percent of people have a mix of the two genotypes The research also showed there was a 'tipping point' in regards to environmental factors. "It's not just one negative life event, such as a health crisis," said Professor Philip Mitchell, Head of the UNSW School of Psychiatry and Convenor of Brain Sciences UNSW. "The critical issue here is when you're exposed to a series of life events during a period of a year. There is a threshold." "Our research is significant because there are social, psychological and genetic aspects to it," said Professor Schofield. "While there is plenty of evidence surrounding the significance of family history of depression, until now there has been very little idea about the specific genes involved." "We already had a chart for each individual's life events and whether or not they had had a depressive episode," said Professor Wilhelm, who has tracked the teachers for most of her career with UNSW Professor Gordon Parker, from the Black Dog Institute. "Now the genetic tests back that up. We are the first study to be able to look at the genetics and the five years leading up to the first depressive episode." "The research has some very significant implications," said Professor Wilhelm. "Perhaps you could reduce the likelihood of depression amongst those with the vulnerable genotype, by training them up in terms of improving their coping styles and stress responses. "Eventually you might be able to better identify those who are likely to be at risk, suggest psychological treatment at times and even work out the best kind of antidepressant to use, if the need arises." Other authors of the paper 'Life events, first depression onset and the serotonin transporter gene' are Heather Niven, Adam Finch, Lucinda Wedgwood, Anna Scimone, Ian Blair and Gordon Parker. ### The Australian National Health and Medical Research Council has funded the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OP_MOM Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 [b]A New Culprit In Depression? Study Finds Surprising Differences In Gene Activity In The Brains Of Depressed People [/b] ANN ARBOR, MI - The brains of people with severe depression have lower levels of several related molecules that are key to the development, organization, growth and repair of the brain than the brains of people without the disease, or those with the bipolar form of depression, a new study finds. Read the whole article here: [url="http://www.biopsychiatry.com/depression/fibroblast-growthfactors.html"]http://www.biopsychiatry.com/depression/fi...wthfactors.html[/url] I thought this was an interesting article, and it certainly concurs with the train of thought that suggests some forms of depression originate as a biological disorder stemming from genetics. I agree that there are types of depression that can be aleviated by reconciliation with God. I also believe that there are too many things we don't understand about the human brain to dump all depression into the same bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'll admit I didn't read this whole thread, but I think the point should be that if we have proper faith and trust in God, and are right with Him, we will have a supernatural joy in our lives. This is not to say that we will always be in a cheerful mood, or never feel "down." Emotions can change, but if one is right with the Lord, trust in Him, and lives in charity towards God and neighbor, he will not go through life in a state of depression and self-pity, but have inner joy and peace. This peace and joy is what is seen in the saints, many of whom lived lives of complete poverty, suffered poor health, and often suffered much injustice from their fellow man. In today's materialistic and self-centered society, many are miserable and depressed. We turn to drugs and pills to fix all our problems. Recent decades have seen vast increases in the rate of depression, anxiety, and suicide. Has something drastically changed in human biology or brain chemistry? I think not. But our society has turned away from God, and grown ever more self-centered, materialistic, and sinful. God leads to true joy. Turning away from God leads to misery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loganrude Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 ironmonk I have just a few questions... what are your favorite tv shows and what are your favorite bands? now to this subject matter. I would have to say I highly disagree with your orginal post that being unhappy means we are doing something wrong. I have been suffering from depression and anxiety badly for the last year and a half. I have been TRYING to be a holy person. I don't miss Mass, I try not to sin, and I try to lead others to Christ. However, I still feel unahppy a large portion on my life because I worry. you don't have to go start pulling up Bible verses on me telling me I shouldn't worry, cause I already know that, and I TRY not to. I have been seriously reconsidering my life for the last couple years now. I got rid of the majority of my Movies (kept wholesome one like rudy, remember the titans), I stopped listening to ALL of the secular bands I used to, and now only listen to Christian stuff. I have been TRYING. but i guess I must be failing like mad somewhere cause I'm unhappy? i hope not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Mar 2 2006, 10:46 PM']I'll admit I didn't read this whole thread, but I think the point should be that if we have proper faith and trust in God, and are right with Him, we will have a supernatural joy in our lives. This is not to say that we will always be in a cheerful mood, or never feel "down." Emotions can change, but if one is right with the Lord, trust in Him, and lives in charity towards God and neighbor, he will not go through life in a state of depression and self-pity, but have inner joy and peace. This peace and joy is what is seen in the saints, many of whom lived lives of complete poverty, suffered poor health, and often suffered much injustice from their fellow man. In today's materialistic and self-centered society, many are miserable and depressed. We turn to drugs and pills to fix all our problems. Recent decades have seen vast increases in the rate of depression, anxiety, and suicide. Has something drastically changed in human biology or brain chemistry? I think not. But our society has turned away from God, and grown ever more self-centered, materialistic, and sinful. God leads to true joy. Turning away from God leads to misery [right][snapback]901988[/snapback][/right] [/quote] as far as the statistics go, I've read plenty of reports that say depression is on the rise. but I think that has a lot to do with the decrease in stigma towards people who suffer from it. There still is a lot of it out there, but people in general are more accepting of those with emotional problems than they were a hundred years ago. If I were a woman w/ depression 100 years ago, I'd be terrified of telling my family about it because I'd be afraid they'd send me to some weird sanatarium where they'd make me stay in bed for 6 months. Or worse! Then again, I still had that fear last semester and my family still has no idea. But i'm not the majority of people w/ issues. and i still am able to tell *someone,* even if it's not my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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