ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 10:32 AM']That's fine. But the Church does accept this point of biology, and encourages her children to seek medical help when necessary. [right][snapback]900688[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. For hundreds of years the Church has been the only psychological help around and it worked. Psychological problems seem to have grown in proportion to lack of Catholic faith in society. People have the power and freewill to change their point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 Emotions will always change, we must gain control of our emotions. We have freewill to look at things the way we want to. Our outlook is a major factor in our happiness. Discipline is a great weapon against depression. We must use our time as Christ wants us to, not lazy sulking in saddness, this is where discipline comes in, life goes on and we will get through any sad times if we live the way Christ wants us to... and have the proper point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:03 AM']Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. [right][snapback]900708[/snapback][/right] [/quote]You are splitting hairs Ironmonk. Anything that has to do with the human condition may in some way or another fall into either faith or morals. Abortion arguments deal a great deal with biology and anatomy, but does that mean it is not a moral question? The effects of drugs deals with biology and anatomy, may the Church not speak on the morality of drugs because it deals with biology? [quote]For hundreds of years the Church has been the only psychological help around and it worked. [/quote]And so you admit that psychological help is often a viable option (and in some cases the only?) [quote]People have the power and freewill to change their point of view.[/quote]This only begs the question we are discussing. Is it merely a point of view or are the other factors that may come into play? That it is only a point of view has yet to be proven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 11:03 AM']Biology has nothing to do with faith or morals. [right][snapback]900708[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It does, in an indirect way. The Church supports the use of medication to treat depression, when appropriate. Hence, we know this is not immoral or un-Catholic. We are certainly free not to seek such help. But we are not free to contradict the Church's judgement that medical treatment of depression is morally licit and entirely acceptable. Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:06 AM']Emotions will always change, we must gain control of our emotions. We have freewill to look at things the way we want to. Our outlook is a major factor in our happiness. Discipline is a great weapon against depression. We must use our time as Christ wants us to, not lazy sulking in saddness, this is where discipline comes in, life goes on and we will get through any sad times if we live the way Christ wants us to... and have the proper point of view. [right][snapback]900711[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh we agree, this all goes into the battle for most people. Humans are both spiritual and physical beings. What happens in one area of our life will affect another. If a person is suffering from some physical ailment it will affect their spirituality and such in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I get a little thing sent to me every day, and this one seems to be quite apt: God wastes nothing! -------------------- 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort. -------------------- The simple obvious "solution" to evil is to simply never allow it to happen. This seems wisest to us, yet for his own profoundly mysterious reasons, God has disagreed with us and chosen to conquer evil, not by annihilating it, but by making even evil the paradoxical servant of God and by thereby ennobling those who have endured it with the same glory as his Son. At the heart of the Christian faith is the mystery of the cross and of redemptive suffering. Even God himself has suffered evil. But in so suffering he has more than merely defeated evil, he has made it the occasion of good that makes death itself a door into heaven and not just a hole in the ground. It is a mystery that is literally beyond words. If you are bearing your cross today, know that through it you are being made, in the darkest and most impenetrable mystery of the universe, an agent of God's power and work in the world for the salvation of others. In the light of the cross, nothing—-not even suffering—-is wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) By the way, the Bible did recommend medication for depression: [quote]Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress. Let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more. --Proverbs 31:6-7[/quote] Today, thanks to modern science, we have medication which can specifically treat depression, and don't have to rely on wine. This is sometimes the appropriate way to let people "remember their misery no more." Edited March 1, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azriel Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Suffer from clinical depression and then get back to me on whether or not you can just "change your outlook". Tell a person who is bi-polar, manic, or suffers from Anxiety to JUST GET OVER IT. Tell my best friend who lost her son, her mother, and had a husband who walked out on her ... who prays her Rosary faithfully, who still counts her blessings, and who does her best to walk with God to just get over her Panic Attacks. I'm out of this thread before I say something I'm going to regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole8223 Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Mar 1 2006, 11:15 AM']I get a little thing sent to me every day, and this one seems to be quite apt: God wastes nothing! -------------------- 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort. -------------------- The simple obvious "solution" to evil is to simply never allow it to happen. This seems wisest to us, yet for his own profoundly mysterious reasons, God has disagreed with us and chosen to conquer evil, not by annihilating it, but by making even evil the paradoxical servant of God and by thereby ennobling those who have endured it with the same glory as his Son. At the heart of the Christian faith is the mystery of the cross and of redemptive suffering. Even God himself has suffered evil. But in so suffering he has more than merely defeated evil, he has made it the occasion of good that makes death itself a door into heaven and not just a hole in the ground. It is a mystery that is literally beyond words. If you are bearing your cross today, know that through it you are being made, in the darkest and most impenetrable mystery of the universe, an agent of God's power and work in the world for the salvation of others. In the light of the cross, nothing—-not even suffering—-is wasted. [right][snapback]900720[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The question to me would then be what does it mean to carry your cross in terms of depression? To carry one's cross in any other situation would be to joyfully suffer in unity with Christ. Depression, by its nature, is contrary to joy. So in order to carry the cross, the person must find the root cause of the depression, and then rejoice in the suffering of this root cause. By joyfully suffering, the depression is non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I was just trying to post something nice here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 secondly, in knowing that your suffering isn't worthless, I don't think it means you have to go around smiling about it, but understand that nothing you go through in life is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Thank you, especially Noel, Pap, Era.... [quote name='Azriel' date='Mar 1 2006, 09:27 AM']Suffer from clinical depression and then get back to me on whether or not you can just "change your outlook". Tell a person who is bi-polar, manic, or suffers from Anxiety to JUST GET OVER IT. Tell my best friend who lost her son, her mother, and had a husband who walked out on her ... who prays her Rosary faithfully, who still counts her blessings, and who does her best to walk with God to just get over her Panic Attacks. I'm out of this thread before I say something I'm going to regret. [right][snapback]900729[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I hear you. Which is why I've been limited in my responses. As often is the case, there is a misunderstanding among people regarding what depression is, at least from my experience... so I've been treading lightly. Edited March 1, 2006 by Ash Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole8223 Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) I wasn't trying to discount anyone's personal situation, but just offer my opinion on the matter. In fact, I think it brings great hope to think that virtue and perseverance can help us defeat depression. Finding the joy in suffering is one of the hardest, but most important things anyone can do in this life. Once we do that, we will learn how to avoid giving in to the feelings of sadness that try to overwhelm us. Rejoicing in our suffering brings about hope, which will never disappoint us. "Rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." (1Pet.4:13). "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds" (Jam.1:2). And just to reiterate, I recognize that depression is sometimes a medical situation, although not nearly as often as we led to believe. Edited March 1, 2006 by Nicole8223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 What needs to be understood is that this is a delicate topic which many people are affected by, and like anything which has affected a person very deeply, must be dealt with in a sensitive matter. Thankfully I have never had to deal with depression, but I understand that anyone who has to deal with it needs support. Two of my friends have been dealing with depression and I know I should be there for them to help them through the bad times. I would never dream of telling them it's their fault. (A general post, not intended to reply to any other specific post, but the topic in general) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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