stbernardLT Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:59 PM']what does a casserole have to do with being catholic?? [right][snapback]896999[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where I am from, Baptist really over do casseroles when it comes to get together and so I feel extra catholic when we have less casseroles. On the other hand I understand where you'll are coming from, I was anti-L%*FE T&@N most of my converted life. I always thought that it was nonsense and the mass was disrespected and drums and electric guitar did not belong there. Me and my wife fell in love with each other over these arguements (she's charismatic, kinda). I even beacame a youth minister at this parish and stated all the flaws of LIFE TEEN in my interview. A couple of years later i got to see the fruits firsthand, and I was like Paul when the scales fell. Since our parish has started to use this format it has grown in every aspect, because now people want to be there and serve. Yes it is emotional for some, but we educate them on what it really should be. And if we are to follow the great commandment of loving God with our whole being we must be emotional at times beacause it is part of who we are. It is obvious that we have differing opinions. To say that I am misleading people because I am interpreting the document different from you is wrong. The document is posted, let other people read it and decide for themselves. Our Bishop(our authority) apparently has no problems with drums and guitar, so why should any of your interpretations of what the church says supercede his. Jesus does talk about obedience more than he talks about drums and guitars. So if my priest and bishop say ok, then I am not being disobedient. If the church says no, then they are the ones at fault. P.S. JPII also celebrated masses that had drums and guitars and was joyful to see teens "feel-good". Let us not be slaves to the laws of sin, but instead be joyful inheriters to the gift of faith. I think God much rathers when someone goes to mass out of love and a want, than out of fear and obligation. "I desire mercy not sacrifice." Now that's personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 its not that hard to get a bunch of teenagers together and teach them some nice Gregorian chant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbernardLT Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 25 2006, 06:32 AM']its not that hard to get a bunch of teenagers together and teach them some nice Gregorian chant [right][snapback]897377[/snapback][/right] [/quote] But what would I do with my drums, guitar, dj, synthesizer, and kazoo (just kidding). Although that could be pretty interesting. In fact I even have a volunteer named Gregory (now that's would be freaky). In the words of the great Rodney King, "I had a dream.... after the cops knocked me the hell out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 I sing Gregorian Chant. And ya, you would have to get rid of those instruments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djc08 Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s1c2a1.htm#1156"]CCC Liturgical Music[/url] It doesn't really say anything about what instruments are appropriate but it does say [quote]The harmony of signs (song, music, words, and actions) is all the more expressive and fruitful when expressed in the cultural richness of the People of God who celebrate.25 [/quote] So maybe to youth the Mass can mean more or they are able to open up more because the use of guitars, drums, and peppy songs is what they enjoy and that makes them not "enjoy" but love the Mass even more and what the Mass is. [quote]275. MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS The Conference of Bishops has decreed that musical instruments other than the organ may be used in liturgical services provided they are played in a manner that is suitable to public worship (November, 1967; see «Constitution on the Liturgy,» art. 120). This decision deliberately refrains from singling out specific instruments. Their use depends on circumstances, the nature of the congregation, etc. In particular cases, if there should be doubt as to the suitability of the instruments, it is the responsibility of the diocesan bishop, in consultation with the diocesan liturgical and music commissions, to render a decision. [/quote] This comes out of Appendix 1 of the GIRM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 Thank you djc08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djc08 Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 No problem Ora et Labora! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Knight Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 The music should not in any way distract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 so, i guess its not considered a distraction any more when people get in front of the church, start singing for all to see...with a piano and guitar. uhuh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:51 PM']40. Music and singing, which express the soul of people, have pride of place in the liturgy. And so singing must be promoted, in the first place singing the liturgical text, so that the voices of the faithful may be heard in the liturgical actions themselves.[84] "[b]In some parts of the world, especially mission lands,[/b] there are people who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life. Due importance is to be attached to their music and a suitable place given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius."[85] [right][snapback]896891[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Is this a plus-side to Quebec being mission territory? Seriously, I'd like to see more gregorian chant, but I also like the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='Catholic Knight' date='Feb 25 2006, 04:43 PM']The music should not in any way distract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair. [right][snapback]897703[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I just read that. Is there a way you can specify that answer with facts? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:51 PM']40. Music and singing, which express the soul of people, have pride of place in the liturgy. And so singing must be promoted, in the first place singing the liturgical text, so that the voices of the faithful may be heard in the liturgical actions themselves.[84] "[b]In some parts of the world, especially mission lands,[/b] there are [b]people who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life.[/b] Due importance is to be attached to their music and a suitable place given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius."[85] [right][snapback]896891[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The United States is the birthplace of rock and roll, hip hop and grunge. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Yesterday, I when to a very traditional parish in town, The music was gorgeous but completely unsingable by anyone other than a professional. The point is that the music needs to encourages greater participation in the celebration of the mass. All posts on this thread seem to agree on that point. Everyone needs to be able to sing it. (Well maybe not me, since i have a voice that only God can appreciate.) Music is a reflection of those celebrating the miracle that is our mass. Gregorian chant and organ music while beautiful are not reflective our culture today and are not the only reverant musical forms. StBernardLT is quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:21 PM']The call of stewardship is that we offer our gifts to the church and god. We might bring money but someone in Africa might bring a chicken, worth the same in God's eyes. An older lady might play the organ and sing a gregorian chant, some teen might play the guitar and sing some praise and worship, worth the same in God's eyes. If the music is inviting worship played with reverence and celebrates community why not. I played drums at a confirmation yesterday with a very conservaitve bishop and he had no problem singing along with "Trading My Sorrows" because he knew the sincerity of the teens making their confirmation and understood that they didn't look at the Celebration of the Eucharist as a "performance." The food was also very good and very catholic(no casseroles.). [right][snapback]896938[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think it is fair to teenagers to automatically say "oh, they won't like this we must do something *special* and *more society-friendly-inspired-repitoire-of-songs-we-can-hear-on-the-radio" Not only does it make us some strange and foriegn "culture", it kind of takes away some of our dignity. This may sound absolutely not true, far-fetched to you, but, think about it. The media portrays teenagers as wild, rebellious,uncaring,selfish,brats that are not exactly people yet. This is a part (notice only a part) of the reason why people think that teens [i]can't or won't[/i] go to Mass without "a reason" -for lack of a better phrase. It kind of tkes away a chance to prove them wrong. Also, when a teenager in group of Life Teen fans says they like chant, they litterally get laughed into silence. I have seen this happen. I can't tell some of my friends that I am going to start a chant choir at my college this Fall. I know kids who won't go to Life Teen. why can't we have "Life Chant" that would be cool. Kids would go to that. Up to now I have not been talking specifically to you. I was just stating my thoughts in general. But this next part is addresed to you. I really don't think you should limit chant to old ladies. Lots of chant scholars and chant enthusiasts are young. That's a part of the reason chant is coming back. Also, have you ever looked at a translation of a chant? The words are absolutely gorgeous and completely relevant still today. I like Life Teen music when I hear it on the radio, but at mass I want more than happy-feely stuff. I mean, Christianity isn't exactly a happy- feely religion. Our God died the most horrific death because we deblibrately chose to ignore the gift He gave us. (paradise) And He did it so we could be with Him. We should fall on the floor in shame and gratitude and plain adoration at Mass. Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, Quæ sub his figuris vere latitas; Tibi se cor meum totum subjicit, Quia te contemplans totum deficit. Visus, tactus, gustus in te fallitur, Sed auditu solo tuto creditur. Credo quidquid dixit Dei Filius; Nil hoc verbo veritátis verius. In cruce latebat sola Deitas, At hic latet simul et Humanitas, Ambo tamen credens atque confitens, Peto quod petivit latro pœnitens. Plagas, sicut Thomas, non intueor: Deum tamen meum te confiteor. Fac me tibi semper magis credere, In te spem habere, te diligere. O memoriale mortis Domini! Panis vivus, vitam præstans homini! Præsta meæ menti de te vívere, Et te illi semper dulce sapere. Pie Pelicane, Jesu Domine, Me immundum munda tuo sanguine: Cujus una stilla salvum facere Totum mundum quit ab omni scelere. Jesu, quem velatum nunc aspicio, Oro, fiat illud quod tam sitio: Ut te revelata cernens facie, Visu sim beátus tuæ gloriæ. Amen Godhead here in hiding, whom I do adore, Masked by these bare shadows, shape and nothing more, See, Lord, at Thy service low lies here a heart Lost, all lost in wonder at the God thou art. Seeing, touching, tasting are in thee deceived: How says trusty hearing? that shall be believed; What God's Son has told me, take for truth I do; Truth Himself speaks truly or there's nothing true. On the cross Thy godhead made no sign to men, Here Thy very manhood steals from human ken: Both are my confession, both are my belief, And I pray the prayer of the dying thief. I am not like Thomas, wounds I cannot see, But can plainly call thee Lord and God as he; Let me to a deeper faith daily nearer move, Daily make me harder hope and dearer love. O thou our reminder of Christ crucified, Living Bread, the life of us for whom he died, Lend this life to me then: feed and feast my mind, There be thou the sweetness man was meant to find. Bring the tender tale true of the Pelican; Bathe me, Jesu Lord, in what Thy bosom ran Blood whereof a single drop has power to win All the world forgiveness of its world of sin. Jesu, whom I look at shrouded here below, I beseech thee send me what I thirst for so, Some day to gaze on thee face to face in light And be blest for ever with Thy glory's sight. Amen. [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Feb 25 2006, 07:32 AM']its not that hard to get a bunch of teenagers together and teach them some nice Gregorian chant [right][snapback]897377[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Jesu, dúlcis memória, Dans véra córdis gáudia: Sed super mel et ómnia Ejus dúlcis præséntia. 2 Nil cánitur suávius, Nil audítur jucúndius, Nil cogitátur dúlcius, Quam Jésus Déi Fílius. 3 Jésu, spes pæniténtibus, Quan píus es peténtibus ! Quan bónus te quæréntibus ! Sed quid inveniéntibus ? 4 Nec língua válet dícere, Nec líttera exprímere: Expértus pótest crédere, Quid sit Jésum dilígere. 5 Sis, Jésu, nóstrum gáudium, Qui est futúrus praémium Sit nóstra in te glória, Per cúncta semper saécula. Amen. JESU, the very thought of Thee With sweetness fills the breast; But sweeter far Thy Face to see, And in Thy Presence rest. No voice can sing, no heart can frame, 5 Nor can the memory find A sweeter sound than Jesu’s Name, The Saviour of mankind. O Hope of every contrite heart, O Joy of all the meek, 10 To those who ask how kind Thou art, How good to those who seek! But what to those who find? Ah! this Nor tongue nor pen can show; The love of Jesus, what it is 15 None but His loved ones know. Jesu, our only Joy be Thou, As Thou our Prize wilt be: In Thee be all our glory now, And through eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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