How many visits should you make?

[OLAM Dad]

This topic ties in pretty closely to the topic where we discussed how you know when you find the right order/community. ([url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=48051"]Click here if you haven't seen it[/url])

This topic came up in Sixtina's countdown thread. I think the whole discussion about how many communities you should visit is interesting and thought that rather then hijack her thread I'd start a new one to discuss it.

If I recall correctly, Sister Lauren seriously visited three communities; all three on multiple occassions, each visit lasting at least 2 days. She visited the Daughters of St. Paul 4 consecutive years for their summer program. She visited the SSEW at least twice and, of course, she had several visits and an aspirancy with OLAM.

She had other, less formal visits (not overnights) with the Lufkin Dominicans, with a Carmel in Humble, TX, and with some PCPAs in France.

She spent a lot of time discerning for somebody who ended up entering a community 2 months after she turned 18. This is one of the many advantages of homeschooling.

Personally, I don't know how many visits are too many or too few. I don't suspect there is a 'right' answer as long as you're discerning with the proper approach. I don't think anybody can absolutely say a single visit is too few or that 100 is too many.

OK, so what is the 'proper approach'? When you go on a visit what exactly should you be looking for? What questions do you guys think need to be answered as part of a visit?

Edited February 24, 2006 by OLAM Dad

[daugher-of-Mary]

I'd say, don't go looking for anything in particular (well, besides orthodoxy! ). The first few years of my discernment, I tended to make up my mind before I ever visited the community. In other words, I wasn't really open to God's Will. Now, if I see a community that attracts me, I write and arrange a visit, but try and offer the entire thing up to my Spouse, and make the visit an opportunity simply to grow closer to Him. He's sure surprised me on some occasions!

[magnificat]

For me, I think it's important to have an idea of what you're drawn to and what you're looking for before going. I think it helps narrow down which communities might be a "match" for you. For example, I know that I am not being called to the cloister life so I wouldn't make a "formal" visit to any of those communities.
I think part of it involves prayer and spending time getting to know who you really are.
One sister advised me when visiting to see if I could imagine doing and living as any of the sisters in the order.

[zunshynn]

What exactly is an aspirancy? Is that only with cloistered orders?

[OLAM Dad]

It is kind of like a super visit. Longer than a regular visit and most likely the last step prior to entering. During the aspirancy you live the life of the sisters as opposed to just being a visitor. You sleep in a cell, etc.

I don't think it's just for cloisters. In fact, the PCPAs don't normally allow them (at least at OLAM they don't). Sr. Lauren got a call from Mother Vicar asking whether she would want to come for one because one of the externs was given permission to go on a pilgrammage to Europe for 3 weeks in October of last year. Sister Lauren assumed some of her duties while she was gone. Until the aspirancy she had always stayed in the guest house during her visits, not in the monastery proper.

[HisChild]

I read that the Sisters of Life now have an aspirancy. (they didn't when I entered.)

[HisChild]

When I first started visiting communities many years ago, I had no idea if I was called to cloistered life or active life. I just felt that I was called to some form of contemplative life. Then, I went through the Guide to Religious Ministries (this was before there were many sites online to view. Actually WAS there an internet back in 92?Not really all that popular, if there was.). I looked at communities that listed some sort of contemplative prayer life. And I wrote, and wrote, and wrote, asking for brochures. There were some sisters in the diocese, most not wearing their habit. I knew that I wanted to be a visible witness to Jesus in the world, if I was called to be active. (That pretty much stemmed from knowing a sister at my parish, for several years before seeing her name in the bulletin as SISTER, giving a class for adults. Floored me, and from then on, I felt called to have a more visible sign of my vows.)

I also met sisters who didn't live in community at all, having to settle for meeting with sisters from other orders perhaps once a month, or so, for fellowship. I knew I didn't want that either. And I wanted a hearty prayer life, for lack of a better term; community prayer and personal prayer.

When I started receiving those brochures, I then used that small amount of information and, in prayer, weeded out the communities that didn't seem 'me'. I tried to visualize myself living their prayer life, and their apostolate, for the rest of my life. Then, I made more formal contact, and if a favorable relationship was established, meaning that we both felt a visit would be in order, I scheduled those. I won't tell you impressions specifically because the visits were so long ago, but I went, quite frankly, on a rampage, since I hadn't had any experience with religious growing up. I visited: Nashville Dominicans, Hawthorne Dominicans (where I first met the Sisters of Life, when their habits were beige), Dominican monasteries in Lufkin and Hollywood, Carmelites of the Sacred Heart, Carmelites of the Divine Heart, the OLAM PCPAs in Irondale Alabama(where I also met a group of sisters still in their infancy, who had just settled on the name of Sister Servants of the Eternal Word. There were only a couple of them at the time.) These visits were anywhere between 3 days and a week. I made some informal visits to chapels along the way, like to the SanDiego Carmel and the Alhambra cloistered Carmel (not to be confused with the Sacred Heart Carmelites I already mentioned). There were many more that I wrote that seemed favorable that I didn't visit, mainly because I felt like I had to make a decision and by then, details were blurring. In retrospect I think I may have been more concerned with my own will than with God's will.

Some visits yielded a 'this isn't for me' response from me. Sometimes the sisters knew that I was not called there. (Sometimes that hurt because I felt like 'well what's wrong with me?' instead of recognizing that, for whatever reason, our Lord wasn't leading me there.

Discerning this time around, things were much different. I knew I was called to contemplative life, felt that meant cloistered, as active orders really didn't attract me all that much, even though there are some fabulous active contemplative orders out there. I wrote to about a dozen communities. I think I did that because there were some, last time, that never responded. This time, I was older and not knowing age limits on some communities, I wrote anyway. There were some who felt that I was too old, and some didn't respond at all. The rest I started corresponding with. After a few letters, there were some that were clear to me 'this isnt for me'. When I finally chose 3 to visit (and a 4th one a tentative), I asked our Lord to just show me where He wanted me. I tried to have indifference, as I felt that I would be better able to hear His voice in that way. It was so odd how loud that Voice was!

I know that the first time I was discerning, I wanted to visit 'just one more'. Not because the others were unsuitable, but because there were no voices coming down from the clouds saying 'go here', I felt that perhaps I wasn't called there. so, I plodded on, hoping for some sort of sign. Truly though, there were signs everywhere, but I wasn't sure if I should accept them as true signs! I think that if, when someone is discerning religious life, if visit after visit truly yields a 'this isnt for me', then sure! go ahead and visit more, until you feel at home! But if you are visiting, waiting for POW! to hit you and tell you that this is where you are called, you may not find it.

I think I mentioned this on another thread. A nun once told me that if you chase after too many communities, you may not enter any of them. That isn't a bad thing, to not enter religious life, but I think her point was that if you search and search, you may come to a point where you either stop altogether, or become so confused that you can't remember which way is up, regarding differences in communities. Now. . .I always knew or remembered the differences, but there were some details that were getting blurry for me. . . some women I've spoken to have said that after a while, if one doesn't stick out in your mind in a positive way, then they sort of start to blur. Thats always a possibility.

The most important part is to try to let go of your own preferences. That's hard in today's world, but when you do that, you will more clearly hear what God is saying to you. He will lead you where He wants you, but you have to hear Him first!

I hope I haven't muddied the water by writing this mini novel, and make things even more confusing!

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='PCPA2Be' date='Feb 24 2006, 03:05 PM']I hope I haven't muddied the water by writing this mini novel, and make things even more confusing!
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Christ used mud to heal the blind. Hopefully your post will have a similar effect.

Great post.

[Lilllabettt]

When the idea of religious life first entered my head, I spent hours and hours on the internet, pouring over the websites of religious communities, message boards, IRL, CMSWR, the whole nine yards. My time would have been better spent listening to the Lord, I think, but I did get a good idea of what was "out there."

There were a number of things I knew that I needed in order to serve the Lord in a religious community: a full habit, an emphasis on spiritual works of mercy, a close-knit family atmosphere, prayer for/care for priests ... I discerned these things in prayer, and this helped narrow the field significantly, because relatively few orders have all of those things ..

As far as visits, I only visited the SSEWs once. They were the first Sisters I ever visited, or met in person, and after that one visit, I felt I was ready to apply. In fact, I got applicaiton papers the last day of my visit. I wanted to apply and enter a few months later ( July of last year.)

I was hit with a lot of stress and anxiety from a number of sources, however, and I got cold feet. And in the end, I think that was for the best, because shortly after it turned out that I wasn't going to enter that July, I felt a big tug towards things Domincan ... so I had a chance to visit the Dominican Sisters in Nashville, and see about them. Observing the differences in how my soul reacted to the different communities helped make it clear to me: No, you are not fooling yourself, or imagining things. You felt at home in Birmingham because you were at home.

I visited Nashville once, and knew they weren't for me (even though they are awesome Sisters ) And I didn't feel the need to visit the SSEWs again before I decided to apply (again.) For me, one visit was enough, although I think it was good for me to visit more than one community.

[shortnun]

I've found these posts thus far to be very helpful. I've seriously discerned (as in visited, stayed overnight, and talked one-on-one with the VD) with one community. And at first, the mere thought of looking into other communities seemed to be a betrayal--even though I knew that the first community wasn't where God was calling me!

Having expressed these hesitations to my spiritual director, I'm working on understanding my own charism and paying particular attention to the workings of the Holy Spirit in my life. Part of understanding my own charism comes from understanding the charisms of various religious communities. So I'm visiting communities (two most likely in the near future) with the intent of learning their charism, not necessarily "discernment to that specific community."

I don't know if that's helpful to this overall topic, buuuuuuuut I've certainly found this topic helpful in my journey.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Feb 24 2006, 04:20 PM']
Having expressed these hesitations to my spiritual director, I'm working on understanding my own charism and paying particular attention to the workings of the Holy Spirit in my life. Part of understanding my own charism comes from understanding the charisms of various religious communities. So I'm visiting communities (two most likely in the near future) with the intent of learning their charism, not necessarily "discernment to that specific community."

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Understanding yourself...

That is an important part to vocation. You need to be able to see yourself in God's plan.

I know, before i made the decision, i made a six month commitment to God and myself to not date. I initially had no intention whatsoever to decide to be a priest in the end. I just needed to reinvigorate my radical faith spirituality.

But during that time i learned a lot about myself. I also overcame many of my character weeknesses. I even saw, how God drew upon my experiences in life to make me who i am. I was aware of my desires, dreams, joys, and love.

I know quite a number of priests who wanted to get married, and most of them had a specific girl in mind. But they realized God called them to something else, and they found so much joy in that.

I couldnt describe myself in the same way. I wanted to be a monk or a hermit really, but didnt believe myself holy enough before i made the commitment.

When the commitment ended, i made my decision, with the help of God's grace, prayer, and my spiritual director. But the decision was based greatly on knowing who i am in the eyes of God.

And after that point i contacted some religious orders, and made the rounds.

SHALOM

[Ora et Labora]

Thanks for the post, MC. For some reason the VS is mostly women (not that there's anything wrong with that!). It's very nice to get the male discerning the priesthood perspective from time to time.

[OLAM Dad]

OOPS.

[Laurentina1975]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 24 2006, 08:00 PM']OOPS.
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Hey Dad, can you check your work voicemail before things get heated in here? I'll PM you as well.