Europe...

[misereremi]

[quote name='Myles' date='Feb 26 2006, 02:19 AM']Absolutely. I do not think Europe's case is hapless particularly with people praying for conversions. But how would you suggest we engage people?
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And btw Myles you're up early, too.. Not working on a report like me, I hope? God bless

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 24 2006, 09:37 PM']Oh hell to the naww.  I've read a lot of lines of b.s. on this board but that one takes the cake. That is THE dumbest article I have ever read. Ever.

If this chickadee writing for the L.A. Times (shocker!) wants to talk about twisting things around, maybe she should look at herself. There are a LOT of socio-economic factors that contribute to such things and has nothing to do with religion. Like, oh, perhaps the fact that a lot of those states mentioned are in the south, are poor, or, dare I say it, have ghettos and racial tensions?

Though I will add that if I had to live in some of those kinds of places, I'd be religious too. I'd be praying to God every day that I not get shot.

If she wants to be more accurate, maybe she should guage such statistics among regular churchgoers rather than gloss over a whole state. Is it just that whichever states happen to magically turn blue or red somehow make their crime rates magically change as well? I know, all the crime rates spike and migrate to where people are religious and vote for George Bush!
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Also, being a Republican doesn't automatically make someone a religious. Many of my friends are Republican, conservative, yet also prochoice and irreligious, while I'm always put in the Democrat camp and I'm Catholic and prolife. I live in a blue state but I know a lot of ppl who go to church and believe the same way I do. A state's party line can't gauge everything that goes on in the state and someone's political stance doesn't automatically declare someone's religious beliefs. I know a lot of devout Catholics who are prolife and Democrat.

Sorry I hijacked the thread Please continue

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='misereremi' date='Feb 26 2006, 02:40 AM']And btw Myles you're up early, too.. Not working on a report like me, I hope?    God bless
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I agree with everything you've said and indeed I believe its in the estates and the like where Catholicism can make the deepest impact. Well I guess I better go to it, eh?

PS) Not writing just not sleeping sadly :

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 24 2006, 10:22 AM']I have heard this before...it seems unbelievable. Because I think you are right...some people (like me) think of Europe as a sort of getaway from all the horrible things taht go on in America...
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. . . just as America was colonized by people wanting to get away from all the horrible things that went on in Europe.

Horrible things are happening all over the globe - you can't run away from fallen human nature.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 24 2006, 07:37 PM']Oh hell to the naww.  I've read a lot of lines of b.s. on this board but that one takes the cake. That is THE dumbest article I have ever read. Ever.

If this chickadee writing for the L.A. Times (shocker!) wants to talk about twisting things around, maybe she should look at herself. There are a LOT of socio-economic factors that contribute to such things and has nothing to do with religion. Like, oh, perhaps the fact that a lot of those states mentioned are in the south, are poor, or, dare I say it, have ghettos and racial tensions?

Though I will add that if I had to live in some of those kinds of places, I'd be religious too. I'd be praying to God every day that I not get shot.

If she wants to be more accurate, maybe she should guage such statistics among regular churchgoers rather than gloss over a whole state. Is it just that whichever states happen to magically turn blue or red somehow make their crime rates magically change as well? I know, all the crime rates spike and migrate to where people are religious and vote for George Bush!
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Dittos, Ash!

That article was pure liberal nonsense.

It makes the following fallacious assumption (which seems very popular among secularist liberals now):
Region A has a higher percentage of religious believers than Region B.
Region A also has a higher percentage of crime, illegitimacy, etc. than Region B.
Therefore, religion is the cause of the higher crime rates, etc. in Region A.

This argument is nonsensical. Does anyone seriously think most people committing murders, fornicating, or getting abortions (in the "Bible Belt" or elsewhere) do so [b]because[/b] of their religion?

Or are they rather acting [b]contrary[/b] to their Christian religion?
I would seriously doubt most people commit these crimes and sins are even thinking about Christ, religion, or the Bible when doing such things.
Rather, they are acting irreligiously, and disregarding Christian Faith altogether.

I would be willing to bet that for the most part, the people doing such things are [b]not[/b] those that are heavily involved with their Christian Faith.
And not everyone that answers "Christian" (as opposed to "Atheist" or whatever) when asked about their religious affiliation in a poll is necessarily a strong practicing Christian.

I would bet anything that if the poll surveyed Christians who are regular Church-goers, actively involved with their Faith, etc., the numbers of those involved in crime would be significantly lower than that of the population at large.
Yes, there are exceptions - Christians are sinners too, and there are hypocrites - but for the most part, active, serious Christians who try to live their Faith are indeed less likely to be involved in crime and other social ills.

For all the politically correct liberals buying into this argument, one could just as easily point out that regions showing the highest rates of crime and social disfunction tend to be more heavily black.
But to blame these problems on simply being black would be rightly condemned as racist.
It is just as irrational and bigoted to blame them on Christianity!

And the article also uses that common secularist red-herring of lumping Christians together with Muslim terrorists and the like. This is again nonsense. I know of precious few Christian suicide bombers! And the claim that the history of Christianity is "every bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam" is again p.c. nonsense. The actual facts of history speak otherwise.

[jezic]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 25 2006, 03:51 PM']Did America "wake up" yet, Ash Wednesday?
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America is more awake than Europe, at least there are movements here fighting some of the stuff that is common place there.

[Socrates]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 25 2006, 09:12 PM']Also, being a Republican doesn't automatically make someone a religious.  Many of my friends are Republican, conservative, yet also prochoice and irreligious, while I'm always put in the Democrat camp and I'm Catholic and prolife.  I live in a blue state but I know a lot of ppl who go to church and believe the same way I do. A state's party line can't gauge everything that goes on in the state and someone's political stance doesn't automatically declare someone's religious beliefs.  I know a lot of devout Catholics who are prolife and Democrat. 

Sorry I hijacked the thread   Please continue
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Yes, there are plenty of "economically conservative" Republicans who are pro-abortion, etc., as well as pro-life Dems, but the truth is that religion and moral values do play a very large part in the "Red State/Blue State" division.

The fact is that many Democrats left their party (or voted Republican in presidential elections) precisely because of the Democatic Party's embrace of moral nihilism.
In fact, the "solid South" used to be reliably Democrat, until recent decades when the Democratic Party became the party of abortion, immorality and radical secularism.

And voter surveys from the last presidential election show that Christian "values voters" overwhelmingly voted for Bush over Kerry, and were in fact, an important factor in Bush's re-election.

The most "Blue" of the "Blue states" are those states where traditional Christian values are overall weakest - the West Coast and Northeastern states, for example.