For all the Dem Bashers!

[Ash Wednesday]

LOL... for the sake of the bill itself outside of party affiliation -- no problem. And bravo for her, and any Democrat fighting against abortion. If there were more like her, then maybe, just maybe I could vote Democrat again.

But maybe I'm thoroughly mistaken, but I do feel that, while the Republican party is certainly not the greatest party in the world, a lot of Democratic supporters on this board don't seem to be willing to give ANY credit regarding anything the Republicans (including the president) have done to fight abortion. And then suddenly a Democrat steps in and we're all supposed to thank our lucky stars and celebrate all that is the Democratic party? Maybe I'm mistaken on that but I just find it to be rather short-sighted.

And I'm not even a Republican.

[Jaime]

I was kind of thinking it was far sighted. Sen Bartling is willfully going against party platform. One lil democrat from one highly democratic state...

This is a huge victory for Democrats for Life (a party that has been pooh poohed by many on this board). If there is a national spotlight on this bill and its sponsor, it will inevitably create dialogue. The more support, the more prayer, the greater the chance that the Democratic Party will change its platform from a culture of death.

So yeah, I think we should celebrate every single step along the way! The more pro life democrats we have in this country, the better off we are!

[Ash Wednesday]

I have no problem celebrating a Democrat for going against her party platform. I'm not talking about Bartling, I'm talking about people on here, and short sighted was a stupid term for me to use on my part. Perhaps a better term is.... biased? Overly partisan? Not that Republicans on here are blameless. My point is, I still have yet to see one Democrat supporter on this board praise any Republican politician for whatever efforts they make to fight abortion. Most of the time it's the sniping "not good enough."

I don't even know why I'm being so grouchy about it. Forgive me for raining on the parade. I am, at heart, a crunchy conservative. I've been just really grouchy these past couple weeks.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 26 2006, 01:58 AM']LOL... for the sake of the bill itself outside of party affiliation -- no problem. And bravo for her, and any Democrat fighting against abortion. If there were more like her, then maybe, just maybe I could vote Democrat again.

But maybe I'm thoroughly mistaken, but I do feel that, while the Republican party is certainly not the greatest party in the world, a lot of Democratic supporters on this board don't seem to be willing to give ANY credit regarding anything the Republicans (including the president) have done to fight abortion.  And then suddenly a Democrat steps in and we're all supposed to thank our lucky stars and celebrate all that is the Democratic party? Maybe I'm mistaken on that but I just find it to be rather short-sighted.

And I'm not even a Republican.
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I totally agree 100%. This is a point I've been making for some time on here.

I definitely think Sen. Bartling's efforts ought to be celebrated, but what gets me about this thread is that it seems to be celebrating Bartling's membership in the Democratic Party as much as anything, and acting as though this is somehow supposed to prove the greatness of the Democratic Party in general.

The same people getting excited about this tend to ignore or dismiss pro-lifers who are Republican, and are quick to attack Republicans at any opportunity. One was even a vocal supporter of the adamently pro-abort John Kerry.

One maverick Democrat spearheads a pro-life effort, and for this we are supposed to go ga-ga over the Party of John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, the ACLU, and NOW, with its platform plank of abortion-on-demand?

None of those celebrating the Democratic Party because of Bartling's actions would ever think of using the pro-life efforts of folks such as Henry Hyde, Chris Smith, or Rick Santorum as evidence of the GOP's greatness!

[Jaime]

[quote]One maverick Democrat spearheads a pro-life effort, and for this we are supposed to go ga-ga over the Party of John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, the ACLU, and NOW, with its platform plank of abortion-on-demand?
[/quote]

Nope

But you can go ga-ga over a democrat who is trying to take this to the Supreme Court.

You can go ga-ga over a democrat who is trying to change her party from the culture of death by doing something that is truly prolife.



[quote]None of those celebrating the Democratic Party because of Bartling's actions would ever think of using the pro-life efforts of folks such as Henry Hyde, Chris Smith, or Rick Santorum as evidence of the GOP's greatness! dry.gif[/quote]

Bull

I have celebrated one year on Phatmass and I have yet to see a thread started about any of these folks.

All I've ever seen is Bush threads and when he nominated two good guys, I celebrated.

This thread isn't about how great the democrats are. Its about how what could be a potentially culture changing bill was created by a democrat. And since democrats are only used around here as tackling dummys, I'm appreciating the irony of the situation.

You're grumbling is a bit telling Soc. I would think that you would be celebrating such a thing. If momentum builds, if support is shown for Bartling and SD, party platforms will change. And that's not just good for democrats or republicans, but for Catholics.

Isn't that what you are first and foremost?

[Socrates]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 26 2006, 03:21 PM']Nope

But you can go ga-ga over a democrat who is trying to take this to the Supreme Court.

You can go ga-ga over a democrat who is trying to change her party from the culture of death by doing something that is truly prolife.
Bull

I have celebrated one year on Phatmass and I have yet to see a thread started about any of these folks. 

All I've ever seen is Bush threads and when he nominated two good guys, I celebrated. 

This thread isn't about how great the democrats are.  Its about how what could be a potentially culture changing bill was created by a democrat.  And since democrats are only used around here as tackling dummys, I'm appreciating the irony of the situation. 

You're grumbling is a bit telling Soc.   I would think that you would be celebrating such a thing.  If momentum builds, if support is shown for Bartling and SD, party platforms will change.  And that's not just good for democrats or republicans, but for Catholics. 

Isn't that what you are first and foremost?
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[/quote]
As I've said repeatedly in this thread, I think what Sen Bartling is doing is a wonderful thing. Read my posts again.

I was simply stating my agreement with what Ash Wednesday had said.

My point was simply that I think Sen. Bartling ought to be celebrated here, not the Democratic Party.

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 23 2006, 02:14 PM']The senate chief sponsor of bill 1215 banning abortions in the state of South Dakota is

Senator Julie Bartling
BTW She's a DEMOCRAT!!
[/quote]
Her Democratic Party membership seemed to be the emphasis in the initial post.

Which led to the following responses:
[quote name='Thumper' date='Feb 23 2006, 02:31 PM']Makes me feel all  about the Dems again.
[/quote]
And
[quote name='zwergel88' date='Feb 24 2006, 01:24 PM']Democrats are soo cool!!!! I hate to say I told you so.
[/quote]

If the Democrats as a whole were acting as Sen. Bartling was, they might deserve this kind of praise. However, they are not.
Sen. Bartling deserves the praise, not the Democratic Party.

That is all.

(and I'd regard similar cheerleading about the Republican Party based on a single person to be equally silly.)

[Jaime]

[quote]National Politics & Policy | McClellan Indicates President Bush Might Not Support South Dakota Bill That Would Ban Abortion
[Feb 28, 2006]

      White House press secretary Scott McClellan on Monday at a news conference "suggested" President Bush might not support a South Dakota bill (HB 1215) that would ban all abortions in the state except to save a pregnant woman's life, the AP/Aberdeen American News reports. Although McClellan did not say if Bush opposes the bill, he did say that the president is "pro-life with three exceptions": rape, incest or when there is a threat to a woman's life -- the last of which is the only exception allowed under the bill.[/quote]

Nice

Any questions on Bush's prolife status kids?

Edited March 1, 2006 by jaime

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 28 2006, 06:01 PM']Nice  

Any questions on Bush's  prolife status kids?
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Not really. But if you can point voters into the direction of who was a [b]viable[/b] presidential alternative in the last election, and had a real chance of reaching the office, I'm all ears.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 28 2006, 06:39 PM']Not really. But if you can point voters into the direction of who was a [b]viable[/b] presidential alternative in the last election, and had a real chance of reaching the office, I'm all ears.
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Oh, John Kerry of course!

BTW He's a DEMOCRAT!!

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 23 2006, 09:37 PM']As far as I know, Bush is not opposing this bill.  If he does, shame on him - but that is not the issue at the moment. 
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*Ahem*

[quote]Not really. But if you can point voters into the direction of who was a viable presidential alternative in the last election, and had a real chance of reaching the office, I'm all ears.[/quote]


[quote]Oh, John Kerry of course!

BTW He's a DEMOCRAT!![/quote]

How about this kids... Instead of the traditional lame fallback of "He's better than Kerry" How's about folks actually have the guts to say "You know Bush's prochoice stance is wrong"

If he does not support this bill, he is absolutely no different than Kerry!

[Ash Wednesday]

Of course I think Bush's stance on exceptions for abortion is wrong. But what is worse, someone that opposes abortion in most cases (or if you'd rather I phrase it "allows for abortion in some cases"), or someone that wants to see abortion enabled in all circumstances?

If Bush doesn't support this, then shame on him. He would deserve just as much criticism as Kerry would, in the context of this single bill. But I still don't think that makes him the "same" as Kerry in the big picture. Ask NARAL.

How many times has this issue been hashed out on the boards?

You don't need to be demeaning by referring to us as "kids". I'm not out for catfights or relying on lame political fallbacks (and I don't think I'm alone on using those.) I made an honest request that didn't even mention Kerry by name.

[Jaime]

I disagree. If Bush doesn't support the bill, he puts himself in the same category as Kerry.

And Peroutka was a prolife candidate.


The kids thing isn't meant to be demeaning. There are a ton of kids on this board.


But my point is valid. Conservatives on this board regularly choose to instead of being critical of Bush simply say "Hey he's better than Kerry". And yes that's a lame response

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Mar 1 2006, 07:53 AM']I disagree.  If Bush doesn't support the bill, he puts himself in the same category as Kerry. 

And Peroutka was a prolife candidate. 
The kids thing isn't meant to be demeaning.  There are a ton of kids on this board.
But my point is valid.  Conservatives on this board regularly choose to instead of being critical of Bush simply say "Hey he's better than Kerry".  And yes that's a lame response
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[/quote]

I've thought of voting for third party -- but I didn't think people like Peroutka or Shriner had chances of winning.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on Bush and Kerry being in the same category -- I personally think Bush chose better justices than Kerry would, and has done more to limit abortion.

I don't have a problem with anyone laying criticism on Bush, in the end. He deserves it. I don't coin Bush as being "better".... I just view Kerry as being worse.

[Jaime]

Its clear that Bush has chosen much better SC justices then Kerry would. But if Bush does not support the bill and Kerry doesn't support the bill, then they are the same on this issue.

The viability of a third party candidate is up to the voter. Too many people believe that third party is the equivilant to a wasted vote. But there are 30 million voting Catholics in the US. If they had voted prolife instead of more restricted prochoice, don't you think that would have made a pivotal difference?

Also people forget that the greatest president in US history was a third party candidate. From a little upstart party called the Republicans.

[Ash Wednesday]

I know what you mean. I've flip flopped on the idea of voting 3rd party. Next election I very well may do just that. God knows that a third party candidate has just as much chance in my state as a Republican does. My state is very, very blue.