Mormon 'truths'

[MRSannie]

MORMONS AND DNA

Another church that has seen rapid growth is the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints, better known as the Mormons. But that may change if members
pay attention to the latest news about one of their core beliefs.

When Joseph Smith began his new religion, he claimed that American Indians were
descendents of ancient Israelites. The Book of Mormon--at least in those
portions that were not lifted directly from the King James Bible--is largely an
account of how Israelites came to America, prospered, and eventually went to war
with one another, with the good guys being wiped out by the bad guys, who are
the ancestors of today's Indians.

One of the great battles took place, it is said, at Hill Cumorah in New York.
Unfortunately for the Mormon church, excavations there have revealed not the
slightest artifact that would substantiate Mormonism's account of ancient
history. That's one reason why, in recent years, emphasis has shifted southward.

The current line is that the Israelites ended up in Central America. But this is
of lesser moment than the fact that, according to Mormonism, the Indians of
North and South America are descended from the Israelites.

Or are they? Not according to DNA research that indicates that American Indians
are descended not from any people in the Middle East but from Polynesians. A
one-time Mormon bishop (equivalent roughly to a parish priest), Simon G.
Southerton, wrote a 2004 book called "Losing a Lost Tribe." An Australian
research scientist, Southerton concluded that the Book of Mormon is historically
wrong in making the Israelite-Indian connection.

A spokesman for the Mormon church said, "We would hope that church members would
not simply buy into the latest DNA arguments being promulgated by those who
oppose the church for some reason or other."

This is disingenuous. People such as Southerton are turning against their church
precisely because of this new scientific evidence, not just "for some reason or
other." It is not likely that they "simply buy into" an argument against their
faith but that they have seen an unresolvable conflict.

Some Mormon leaders have tried to effect a tertium quid: Yes, the DNA shows no
connection between Indians and Israelites, but that's because the latter
colonized only a very small portion of Central America and their DNA was
"swallowed up" by Indians who preceded them there. "It would be a virtual
certainty that their DNA would be swamped," said Daniel Peterson, a professor at
Brigham Young University.

If so, wouldn't this really mean that today's Indians are not, in fact,
descended from those Israelite colonists? That ancient DNA would disappear only
if its holders failed to reproduce. Peterson's argument doesn't save the
traditional Mormon teaching.

How will this scientific revelation affect the Mormon church? There probably
will be no mass defection. The leadership will provide a response that will
satisfy most of the people in the pews, but surely some Mormons will doubt, and
some will leave.

Consider Jose Loayza, who was born in Peru but now is an attorney in Salt Lake
City. "We were taught all the blessings of that Hebrew lineage belonged to us
and that we were special people. It not only made me feel special, but it gave
me a sense of transcendental identity and identity with God. I've gone through
stages. Absolute denial. Utter amazement and surprise. Anger and bitterness."
This does not sound like a man for whom Mormonism will be a long-term home.

Other Mormons will go through similar stages, and some of them will leave the
church of their upbringing. Mormonism will continue to grow, but perhaps its
rate of growth will level off. The religion will lose some of its allure,
particularly in Latin America, once it becomes known that Indians are just
Indians and can't trace themselves to ancient Israel.

[MRSannie]

What do you all think? I had no idea they thought the American Indians were decendants of the Hebrews...

[thessalonian]

[quote name='MRSannie' date='Feb 22 2006, 11:37 AM']What do you all think?  I had no idea they thought the American Indians were decendants of the Hebrews...
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I lived in Utah for 8 years. It was pretty standard mormon teaching and is right out of the book of Mormon. 600 years before Christ some Jews supposedly sailed accross the Atlantic in a small boat. I may send an email out to a mormon buddy or two to see how they are reconciling this. I am sure they are finding ways. Proving the book of Mormon with Archeology was a big thing to them so this won't help.

[Ash Wednesday]

There is a site I've visited many times called "exmormon.org" I don't recall who said it but some cynical high bishop in the Mormon Church told someone once that he didn't know whether or not a lick of it was true, but that it was a good place to raise a family. So that's my guess why some people would stay in the Mormon Church.

There an author that wrote a book titled "Tale of Two Cities: The Mormons and the Catholics."

He basically states that in a conversation with someone, someone explained to him that protestants don't have a leg to stand on, as they are just an offshoot from Catholicism -- and that the Church that holds the truth as taught by Jesus Christ is either the Mormon Church or the Catholic Church.

I don't recall a lot about this gentleman's story, but he not only left the Mormon Church and became a Catholic -- he also became a priest as well. He goes into great detail a lot of glaring historical inaccuracies in the Book of Mormon.

[MRSannie]

Wow, what interesting things. Is it true that Mormons believe folks are still married in Heaven, and produce children who are born to others on Earth?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='MRSannie' date='Feb 22 2006, 11:37 AM']What do you all think?  I had no idea they thought the American Indians were decendants of the Hebrews...
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I have an American Indian friend who would exceedingly upset to learn this "truth".

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[url="http://envoymagazine.com/backissues/3.2/story2.html"]http://envoymagazine.com/backissues/3.2/story2.html[/url]

[url="http://envoymagazine.com/backissues/article.asp?ID=208"]http://envoymagazine.com/backissues/article.asp?ID=208[/url]

[thessalonian]

[quote name='MRSannie' date='Feb 25 2006, 04:34 PM']Wow, what interesting things.  Is it true that Mormons believe folks are still married in Heaven, and produce children who are born to others on Earth?
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Yep. That is on some other earth. The spirit children here are born of God the Father and some will acknowledge there is a God the mother as well. We will grow up to have our own worlds and salvation plans. Some of this is a bit speculative but not that much.

Edited February 27, 2006 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

Ash Wednesday,

I've read the tale of two cities and have a copy at home, though it's been a while. I'll try to look up my copy later. I find it to be very balanced as opposed to the protestant versions by Dave Hunt and others. One good question I got out of it is if these Indians were supposed to have come accross the ocean in 600 BC how come 2 Neph says "bible, bible, we've got bibles". How can this be? To fill you in there was nothing called a Bible until the Jerome Vulgate, nearly 1000 years after this. All they had back then was a pile of scrolls. The word Bible could not have been used back then.

I've heard mormons say that Protestants don't have a leg to stand on as well. Joseph Smith rejected all of Christianity saying he recieved a vision that said none of them were true. This was because of his 18th century confusion over all the denominations. Confusion which has only grown today. Mormonism does have a hierarchical structure in common with Catholicism so we should use that commonality to help them see the truths of the Catholic faith.

blessings

Edited February 27, 2006 by thessalonian

[YMNolan]

I apologize if this seems random and unrelated but it came to me as I was reading this thread. Did anyone ever see the episode of South Park when the Mormon family moves in?

Well, it does a number on the Mormons and basically makes a harsh mockery of their beliefs. It was pretty much relentless - as you would expect from the creators of SP. I'm not sure how accurate it was either.

Anyways, after seemingly belittling the Mormon faith for the whole show, an interesting comment is made. The kids were butchering the mormons and trying to convice Stan (or maybe it was Kyle), who had just converted, that Mormonism is based on made-up stories of a psychotic Joseph Smith. Finally Stan "comes to his senses" and begins to realize that he made a mistake. Meanwhile the Mormon kid has been calm, cool, and collected the entire time and has wanted nothing but to just have a new friend. The show ends with him saying something like "Is it so bad that I have a different belief than you? What have I ever done to you to deserve this? All I've done is triesd to be a good person and a good friend and you want to put me down for my beliefs". I paraphrased a lot there.

But it was almost like the creators of SP actually felt bad for what they were saying about Mormons and through the kids (who are usually an expression of the creators' views) were handed a large piece of humble pie, realizing that there is validity in religion.

Of course since then South Park has not been as complimentary (more so downright derrogatory and hurtful) to the Catholic Church, but I thought this was worth mentioning.