stbernardLT Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 So the church says it is preferred to have boys as alter servers but it doesn't forbid girls. So it must be ok if you believe in the Holy Spirit guiding the church. St. Ignatius of Loyola once stated that if the church said white was black and black was white we must agree even if we know otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 There's nothing wrong with female alter servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 My problem with female altar servers was the disobedience that many pastors showed to the Church back when they were forbidden. Now that the Church has lifted its general prohibition, I'll allow for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='Norseman82' date='Feb 26 2006, 01:48 PM']My problem with female altar servers was the disobedience that many pastors showed to the Church back when they were forbidden. [right][snapback]898206[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Keep the past in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 26 2006, 12:48 PM']Keep the past in the past [right][snapback]898209[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Post edited to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 26 2006, 02:32 PM']So the church says it is preferred to have boys as alter servers but it doesn't forbid girls. So it must be ok if you believe in the Holy Spirit guiding the church. St. Ignatius of Loyola once stated that if the church said white was black and black was white we must agree even if we know otherwise. [right][snapback]898187[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh give me a break. i'm so tired of hearing about the "Holy Spirit" guiding every little whim and practice. Altar girls are a [b]concession[/b], nothing more and nothing less. The idea being to contain the damage already done and not spread it by issuing a ban which most Americans would meet with outright defiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbernardLT Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 (edited) [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 26 2006, 01:32 PM']oh give me a break. i'm so tired of hearing about the "Holy Spirit" guiding every little whim and practice. Altar girls are a [b]concession[/b], nothing more and nothing less. The idea being to contain the damage already done and not spread it by issuing a ban which most Americans would meet with outright defiance. [right][snapback]898244[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I am now feeling a call to follow your guidance instead of the church. Edited February 26, 2006 by stbernardLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 26 2006, 02:24 PM']I am now feeling a call to follow your guidance instead of the church. [right][snapback]898269[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Church never encouraged nor promoted altar girls. What Toledo Jesus said was correct. The Church merely said that the decision whether they would be allowed or not would be left to the local bishop. Male altar servers are still to be the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbernardLT Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Catholics who pick and choose want they want to believe are called cafeteria catholics. So since I am taking a stand on a "concession", does that make me a concession stand catholic. Just wondering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 26 2006, 04:28 PM']The Church never encouraged nor promoted altar girls. What Toledo Jesus said was correct. The Church merely said that the decision whether they would be allowed or not would be left to the local bishop. Male altar servers are still to be the norm. [right][snapback]898277[/snapback][/right] [/quote] "The norm" is not the proper terminology. "Laudable" is the proper terminology. Because it is left to the local Ordinary, it could very well be "the norm" to allow for female altar servers. Let me be perfectly clear though......I will stand by what I posted earlier; [quote name='Cam42']The way [Redemptionis Sacramentum #47] is worded, I see a clear bias toward boys. This is not a bad bias by the way. It says that it is laudable to retain boys as altar servers after the manner of acolytes. This is a very clear distinction, since only men are allowed become acolytes, it would seem only logical that the custom should be boys. However, if the local Ordinary (bishop) decides that there is a pastoral need, women may serve at the altar. This must be done in accordance with the established norms.[/quote] I personally believe that the logical custom should be boys. I don't see any justifiable need in any archdiocese or diocese for the use of girls. This does not mean that the wording of Redemptoris Sacramentum is somehow incorrect. It gives a provision for female altar servers, not a mandate. That is key. Redemptoris Sacramentum also speaks directly to my position that the "norm" is not boys, but rather that it is "laudable" to have boys serve Mass. Again, I think that my post ([url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=48101&st=0"]#25[/url]) speaks to the current conversation at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 26 2006, 05:00 PM']Catholics who pick and choose want they want to believe are called cafeteria catholics. So since I am taking a stand on a "concession", does that make me a concession stand catholic. Just wondering? [right][snapback]898291[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, you just aren't thinking very hard. Nobody is saying altar girls aren't allowed. They are [b]allowed[/b], but not [b]encouraged[/b]. Therefore, not preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 26 2006, 12:32 PM']So the church says it is preferred to have boys as alter servers but it doesn't forbid girls. So it must be ok if you believe in the Holy Spirit guiding the church. St. Ignatius of Loyola once stated that if the church said white was black and black was white we must agree even if we know otherwise. [right][snapback]898187[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Pope and Magisterium are infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit in matters concerning what we are to believe by faith (unseen things) and on matters concerning morality. The allowance of altar girls is not a matter that falls under those two categories which is exactly why they put it in the hands of the local ordinary. However, I think the Holy Spirit is a fan of common sense. And common sense demands usefulness in activity. It does not seem possible to demonstrate that allowing altar girls is a useful thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbernardLT Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 28 2006, 06:50 AM']No, you just aren't thinking very hard. Nobody is saying altar girls aren't allowed. They are [b]allowed[/b], but not [b]encouraged[/b]. Therefore, not preferable. [right][snapback]899825[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Holy Toledo Batman! We have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Usually when girls are allowed, the boys slowly disappear. Sad. In our church we don't even have enough girls , so grown men serve as altar boys at mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 28 2006, 12:04 PM']Holy Toledo Batman! We have a winner. [right][snapback]899931[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hey, you're the one being dense. [img]http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0060153/th-AdamandFred.jpg[/img] Old chum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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