brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:23 PM']So, your saying the SSPX are more protostant then Catholic? Right...? [right][snapback]893126[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Heh heh, I'd like to see what Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Williamson would say to that... Edited February 21, 2006 by brendan1104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Jesus Mary & Joseph people! Vatican happened 40 years ago. Get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:26 PM']Heh heh, I'd like to see what Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Williamson would say to that... [right][snapback]893132[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Who cares what people would say that are excommunicated? [quote]So St. Athanasius and Saint Paul and other saints were protestants? No, that's merely protesting leaders, not the Church. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, not bureaucrats or bishops[/quote] This is your fatal error - St. Athanasius as well as St. Paul remained utterly obedient and respectful to their leaders, they did not stray from the Catholic Church and land themselves in schism. They do not cause dissent and division. Being critical of mistakes a leader may make is one thing, openly attacking them and removing yourself from the flock is quite the other. Edited February 21, 2006 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:30 PM']Jesus Mary & Joseph people! Vatican happened 40 years ago. Get over it! [right][snapback]893140[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No need for blasphemy... Cardinal Siri said in 1970 it would take a century to undo the damage if they got rid of the Novus Ordo/the reforms 36 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:26 PM']Heh heh, I'd like to see what Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Williamson would say to that... [right][snapback]893132[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How could he refute it? As you may've witnessed on this site Brendan I have encouraged charity towards the SSPX (I encourage it still, I do not believe either virtue or reconciliation is aided by warring) but at the same time the SSPX are taking a fundamentally Protestant stance: They are saying the Church is wrong and using the same logic of the modernists about definition--refusing to accept the ordinary magisterium--to justify their schism. How can you, in knowledge of canon law, and of the bull of excommunication confirmed by Pope John Paul II maintain that the SSPX are not in schism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:22 PM']So St. Athanasius and Saint Paul and other saints were protestants? No, that's merely protesting leaders, not the Church. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, not bureaucrats or bishops. [right][snapback]893125[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You indeed are a protestant. Maybe even one just trying to act like a protestant that thinks they are traditionalists. You really need to get educated. The word Church has more than one meaning. The Church in this matter is the hierarchy. The Church is the teaching authority. The teaching authority is who is guided by God. Ever hear of the authority of the Pope?! You need to read the scriptures a few dozen times and the Church fathers because you have posted volumes of ignorance in the above quote. I do not have time to waste dialoging with you if you are too lazy to do your homework and come up with a better arguement than this feable one. [b]Pope Clement I[/b] "Owing to the sudden and repeated calamities and misfortunes which have befallen us, we must acknowledge that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the matters in dispute among you, beloved; and especially that abominable and unholy sedition, alien and foreign to the elect of God, which a few rash and self-willed persons have inflamed to such madness that your venerable and illustrious name, worthy to be loved by all men, has been greatly defamed. . . . Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobey the things which have been said by him [God] through us [i.e., that you must reinstate your leaders], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger. . . . You will afford us joy and gladness if being obedient to the things which we have written through the Holy Spirit, you will root out the wicked passion of jealousy" (Letter to the Corinthians 1, 58–59, 63 [A.D. 80]). [b]Hermas[/b] "Therefore shall you [Hermas] write two little books and send one to Clement [Bishop of Rome] and one to Grapte. Clement shall then send it to the cities abroad, because that is his duty" (The Shepherd 2:4:3 [A.D. 80]). [b]Ignatius of Antioch[/b] "Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]). "You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1). [b]Dionysius of Corinth[/b] "For from the beginning it has been your custom to do good to all the brethren in various ways and to send contributions to all the churches in every city. . . . This custom your blessed Bishop Soter has not only preserved, but is augmenting, by furnishing an abundance of supplies to the saints and by urging with consoling words, as a loving father his children, the brethren who are journeying" (Letter to Pope Soter in Eusebius, Church History 4:23:9 [A.D. 170]). "Today we have observed the Lord’s holy day, in which we have read your letter [Pope Soter]. Whenever we do read it [in church], we shall be able to profit thereby, as also we do when we read the earlier letter written to us by Clement" (ibid., 4:23:11). [b]The Martyrs of Lyons[/b] "And when a dissension arose about these said people [the Montanists], the brethren in Gaul once more . . . [sent letters] to the brethren in Asia and Phrygia and, moreover to Eleutherius, who was then [A.D. 175] bishop of the Romans, negotiating for the peace of the churches" (Eusebius, Church History 5:3:4 [A.D. 312]) "And the same martyrs too commended Irenaeus, already at that time [A.D. 175] a presbyter of the community of Lyons, to the said bishop of Rome, rendering abundant testimony to the man, as the following expressions show: ‘Once more and always we pray that you may rejoice in God, Pope Eleutherius. This letter we have charged our brother and companion Irenaeus to convey to you, and we beg you to receive him as zealous for the covenant of Christ’" (ibid., 5:4:1–2). [b]Irenaeus[/b] "But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]). Get Educated: [url="http://www.Catholic.com"]http://www.Catholic.com[/url] [url="http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com"]http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com[/url] -ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:30 PM']Jesus Mary & Joseph people! Vatican happened 40 years ago. Get over it! [right][snapback]893140[/snapback][/right] [/quote] On this account I do agree with Brendan. No need for that kind of language dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Myles' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:33 PM']How could he refute it? As you may've witnessed on this site Brendan I have encouraged charity towards the SSPX (I encourage it still, I do not believe either virtue or reconciliation is aided by warring) but at the same time the SSPX are taking a fundamentally Protestant stance: They are saying the Church is wrong and using the same logic of the modernists about definition--refusing to accept the ordinary magisterium--to justify their schism. How can you, in knowledge of canon law, and of the bull of excommunication confirmed by Pope John Paul II maintain that the SSPX are not in schism? [right][snapback]893149[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Because it was an invalid excommunication... Canon Law protects them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:34 PM']Because it was an invalid excommunication... Canon Law protects them. [right][snapback]893152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Explain how they're protected when they incurred latae sententiae? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Myles' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:34 PM']On this account I do agree with Brendan. No need for that kind of language dude. [right][snapback]893151[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Catholic means All-embracing. Trads aren't all-embracing to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Myles' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:36 PM']Explain how they're protected when they incurred latae sententiae? [right][snapback]893154[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Mr. Myles... Archbishop Lefebvre did what he did, in conscience, because he knew he had to consecrate the bishops. Honestly, just check out [mod]we do not link to SSPX sites[/mod]I'm tired from all the SSPX debates on PM. Edited February 21, 2006 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:37 PM']Catholic means All-embracing. Trads aren't all-embracing to change. [right][snapback]893156[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Neither are liberals, or orthodox people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Do you trads support the Pope in Spain? The one in Montana? Kanas? Edited February 21, 2006 by catholicinsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:38 PM']Mr. Myles... Archbishop Lefebvre did what he did, in conscience, because he knew he had to consecrate the bishops. Honestly, just check out [mod]we do not link to sspx sites[/mod] I'm tired from all the SSPX debates on PM. [right][snapback]893157[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So conscience makes their excommunication invalid...? Edited February 21, 2006 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:39 PM']Do you trads support the Pope in Spain? The one in Montana? [right][snapback]893161[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Palmar de Troya? And Pius XIII? You've gotta be nuts! Kristina where are you and OLAM Dad?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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