Cam42 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 23 2006, 02:43 PM']snake eyes buddy. Gaius Julius...that kidder. He was a real mensch. [right][snapback]895676[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Good thing you got it........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 23 2006, 09:56 PM']Good thing you got it........... [right][snapback]896080[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i really am quite intelligent and even moderately well read. I just enjoy acting like a buffoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 23 2006, 11:31 PM']i really am quite intelligent and even moderately well read. I just enjoy acting like a buffoon. [right][snapback]896237[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Never doubted that for one minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 24 2006, 05:50 AM']Never doubted that for one minute. [right][snapback]896451[/snapback][/right] [/quote] that makes one of us! : j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 24 2006, 12:08 PM']that makes one of us! : j/k [right][snapback]896607[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Let Ora be anathema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 24 2006, 10:24 PM'] Let Ora be anathema. [right][snapback]897257[/snapback][/right] [/quote] : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Cam, That church you showed was beautiful. I hope one day to attend Mass there. I notice that there is no way for the priest to face the people during mass though, since the alter is smack dab up against the back wall. One thing I noticed about my parish is that the communion rail is still there, and I have heard that other parishes removed their communion rail. The gates are always open but I like the fact that the rail is still there. As far as Communion, only the Priest and deacons give the eucharist. We started (dont know when, but will find out) both eucharist and wine and usually the sisters take care of the wine, if there are enough present. Also there is only one alter girl during Mass and she usually is the one who carries the crucifix and nothing else. I am curious though, I remember in my youth that the priest used incense and now it is not used. When did this practice stop? Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 [quote name='Quietfire' date='Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM']Cam, That church you showed was beautiful. I hope one day to attend Mass there. I notice that there is no way for the priest to face the people during mass though, since the alter is smack dab up against the back wall. One thing I noticed about my parish is that the communion rail is still there, and I have heard that other parishes removed their communion rail. The gates are always open but I like the fact that the rail is still there. As far as Communion, only the Priest and deacons give the eucharist. We started (dont know when, but will find out) both eucharist and wine and usually the sisters take care of the wine, if there are enough present. Also there is only one alter girl during Mass and she usually is the one who carries the crucifix and nothing else. I am curious though, I remember in my youth that the priest used incense and now it is not used. When did this practice stop? Pax [right][snapback]899113[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You are correct, the priest cannot face the people, but the altar is not against the wall, it is actually freestanding. It stands out from the wall by about 2 feet. You just can't see it from that perpsective. Then again, there is nothing that mandates the priest celebrating Mass facing the people. Actually the rubrics assume that this is not the case. And they use the Communion rail. The reason that the gates are always open is that they are no longer there. They were removed as to show an openness between the sacntuary and the faithful. You should make it there....they conduct Vianese style High Masses. You know, Mozart, Beethoven, Gunoud. The propers are done with a schola. During Lent and the summer they are schola Masses and no orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) Quietfire the use of incense has never ceased. Given the sacrificial implications drawn from the use of incense it is highly unlikely the practice will ever be stopped either. Indeed, it isn't used everywhere but thats not legislative on the part of Holy Mother Church (just preferential on the part of the priest celebrating the Mass). Moreover just to back up Cam's point: [quote]157. When the prayer is concluded, the priest genuflects, takes the host consecrated in the same Mass, and, holding it slightly raised above the paten or above the chalice, while facing the people, says, Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God). With the people he adds, Domine, non sum dignus (Lord, I am not worthy). 158. After this, standing and turned toward the altar, the priest says quietly, Corpus Christi custodiat me in vitam aeternam (May the Body of Christ bring me to everlasting life) and reverently receives the Body of Christ. Then he takes the chalice, saying quietly, Sanguis Christi custodiat me in vitam aeternam (May the Blood of Christ bring me to everlasting life), and reverently receives the Blood of Christ.[/quote] Just one out of many possible citations from the[url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml"]General Instruction of the Roman Missal[/url] which clearly shows that its authors envision the priest and the people being commonly oriented towards God throughout the liturgy. For example: [quote]146. Upon returning to the middle of the altar, the priest, facing the people and extending and then joining his hands, invites the people to pray, saying, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren). The people rise and make their response: Suscipiat Dominus (May the Lord accept). Then the priest, with hands extended, says the prayer over the offerings. At the end the people make the acclamation, Amen. 147. Then the priest begins the Eucharistic Prayer. In accordance with the rubrics (cf. below, no. 365), he selects a Eucharistic Prayer from those found in the Roman Missal or approved by the Apostolic See. The Eucharistic Prayer demands, by its very nature, that the priest say it in virtue of his ordination. The people, for their part, should associate themselves with the priest in faith and in silence, as well as through their parts as prescribed in the course of the Eucharistic Prayer: namely the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration, the acclamatory Amen after the final doxology, as well as other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops and recognized by the Holy See. It is very appropriate that the priest sing those parts of the Eucharistic Prayer for which musical notation is provided. [/quote] Points 146 and 147 of the GIRM which cover the start of the Eucharistic Prayer highlight how upon returning to the centre of the altar the priest must face the people to begin the Eucharistic Liturgy. Now between points 146 and 147 nothing is mentioned about him moving in anyway which would mean if the priest were facing the people the whole time whilst saying the Eucharistic prayer points 157 and 158 would be nonsensical. After all if he's already facing the people praying the Eucharistic prayer why tell him to do it again? Moreover, if he is facing the people saying the anaphora he's already facing the altar, right? The only way to make sense of this would be to propose that after saying the Eucharistic prayer the priest moves around the altar presents the Host and Chalice to the people and recieves the Eucharist from there. However, there are no instructions of that sort within the GIRM and you would certainly expect there to be if the priest was going to start moving about at such a key point in the Mass. What then should we make of all this? Personally, I think its obvious since points 146 to 157 make a unit in that they are the first and last directives about how to recite the Eucharistic Prayer. If the priest were saying the Eucharistic prayer facing the people at the start of the anaphora there would be no need to tell him to face them at its conclusion. The undeniable inference from this is that the GIRM envisions that in point 146 the priest faces the people and then turns back round to face the altar in common orientation with the people turning back to face the congregation at point 157 and then back at the altar in 158. In short the GIRM envisions that the Mass be said with a common orientation of the faithful towards God. Edited February 27, 2006 by Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Last night on Sunday Night Live with Fr. Benedict Groschel, the man who was on who is an editor for the magazine "Inside the Vatican" said he was convinced that the Holy Father will create his own missal, and reform the liturgy. That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 That wpi;d be...interesting. I dont like change, but, the pope knows best. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 That would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM']That would... [right][snapback]899355[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Somebody knows the code! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM']That wpi;d be...interesting. I dont like change, but, the pope knows best. lol [right][snapback]899354[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, it would be good change, back to the basics of orthodoxy to the sacrifice of the Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmniaInstaurareInChristo Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) For me it would be a dream come true, but you may have already guessed that from some of my other posts. Edited February 28, 2006 by OmniaInstaurareInChristo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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