Marital Decree Of Nullity

[esperanza]

Hyper! Did you know that about Robert II off the top of your head?? Glory!

That is definately the earliest date I have seen anullment mentioned with the Pope's involvement. I didn't find details about it - but the term "anullment" was used in describing 1 of his 3 "trips to the alter" . Thanks for that reference.

Re: "other types of anullment" - I am aware that many divorced Catholics utilize a practice called "The Internal Forum" that in my understanding is not a proper practice according to the Church. This is when people think they already know their marriage in invalid, they do not feel the need to submit to the formal procedure with a tribunal investigation and therefore proceed with remarriage and continued participation in receiving the Eucharist. Some use this and never attempt a formal process, others use this after a formal process has taken place, but they disagree with the outcome. Does that make sense?

So when I refer to a formal case - I am meaning the formal involvement of the church declaring the marriage a valid or invalid one.

Ironmonk - I completely agree with you and with the scriptures you posted. Thanks so much. As I read your post - I was wondering in my head still about other practices in the church that began many many years after Christ died and rose - and then I thought that most sacramental practices did not likely FORMALLY begin until the Council of Trent at least. Is that right? I've always assumed the formal presence of marriage, penence, baptism, priesthood, communion ~ were all in place (formally) since the time of Christ. Inform me on this please.

Thanks for helping me keep things straight. Please continue to provide any thoughts/ info you have on this. The complete and utter lack of support I have from my non-christian friends, my parish and the tribunal occassionally makes my head spin. Thanks again for you help

[hyperdulia again]

Sadly Esperanza I did know Robert II off the top of my head, he was the son of my hero Hugh Capet.

I get it now, thank you for that info. You enlightened me, and I'm terribly sorry that I know little about annullments don't know where to go to fimnd out more. :)

[ironmonk]

One thing to note about Councils...

When teachings arise in the Church that have not been declaried as official, then councils settle the dispute. The Councils being guided by God in All Truth.

This is just an anology.... (i don't like baseball ever since they went on strike)

That the Church always taught that football was the game to play, but never has declared it as being the only way to play. Then someone in the Church started teaching baseball was the game to play. Now we would have a conflict, then the Church would step in and call a council. Then the Council would make a infallible decission that Football was the game to play and that baseball was wrong; then the date of the teaching would appear to be later than it actually was.

When teachings come into question of why, we see the Church calling councils and settling the argument.

A real life example would be the New Testament. It wasn't cannonized until 400 AD, but we've been using the Gospels ever since they were written.

Check out these links:

http://www.Catholic.com

http://www.TCLD.net

http://www.Catholicity.com

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[esperanza]

It's all so simple. Thank you. I can't believe I'm as old as I am and have never had to think about/ wonder/ question when and how pratices/ teachings were established. I've just trusted/ assumed and in some cases - not really cared. Thanks for your help.

Esperanza

PS - It doesn't really matter but in my previous post on this thread I should have written "I've always assumed that many practices associated with marriage, penence, baptism, priesthood, communion ~ were all in place (formally) since the time of Christ."

Edited July 27, 2003 by esperanza

[Katholikos]

Does anyone have any information on when and how formal tribunal investigations of marriages began in our church?

I don't think knowing when TRIBUNAL (ecclesiastical court) investigations began in the Church will answer the inquiry into when MARRIAGE QUESTIONS were decided by the Church. Obviously, the answer is: the Church decided marraige questions from the very beginning. The mechanism (whether it was done directly by an Apostle or his successors, or by a tribunal appointed to the task by a successor to the Apostles) is really not important.

St. Paul, for example, writes:

"To the rest I say (not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is an unbeleiver, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact, they are holy. If the unbeliever separates, however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases. God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband; or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" 1 Cor 7:12-16 NAB

Please note that here St. Paul is not addressing remarriage. He does that elsewhere.

St. Paul would have decided who met these and other marriage requirements in the Churches which he had founded, and his successors would have continued to act as judge.

Marriage is a Sacrament. The Church has always had jurisdiction over the Sacraments.

The Church's adjudication of matters of marriage, separation, and divorce did not begin with the establishment of tribunals. Tribunals simply became the necessary means by which the Church continued her mission as guardian of the Sacraments as she grew in numbers.

I don't know when tribunals were established. Nor do I think it's important to know. It proves nothing about Church practice. The Church governs the Sacrament of Marriage, as it was in beginning, is now, and ever shall be, amen.