Lifeteen cleaned up their liturgies, huh?

[Catholic Knight]

[quote name='God the Father' date='Feb 22 2006, 03:46 PM']Life Teen? Life Teen gives me something to rebel against. The church experience would be more welcoming to me if every Sunday they got a big-ticket recording artist to come and perform afterwards. I'm not sure what God would think, but hey, there you go.
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One should not need a big-ticked recording artist to come and perform. You only get out of it what you put into it.

Pax Christi,
CK

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 21 2006, 02:54 PM']Ora and Nicole are perilously close to Ruling...
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Why me?? Ruling what?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 23 2006, 10:01 AM']Why me?? Ruling what?
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You would just Rule. but you haven't met the qualifications yet.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 23 2006, 12:35 PM']You would just Rule.  but you haven't met the qualifications yet.
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Okay...what qualifications? And what made you think in the first place I could rule? Do my posts show it or something?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Feb 21 2006, 10:16 PM']Contrast that with this:

[img]http://www.cmri.org/pictures/mass3.jpg[/img]

and I could understand why people get a tad upset.
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On the otherhand, traditionalists have outdoor masses, too. Just so we're dealing with apples-to-apples, here's an SSPX mass, using a canoe as an altar:
[img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/mateoelfeo/Catholic/SSPX_Canoe_Mass.jpg[/img]
Enjoy.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[Ora et Labora]

That probably rarely happens...and it is not against the Catholic Church to have outdooe masses anyway! As long as you have permission...

It is just not done very often...

[Ora et Labora]

The SSPX are not what they appear to be...at times.

[Church Punk]

Former Fr. Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II) used to celebrate outdoor mass on kayak trips doing the same type of method making the boat into an alter to celebrate mass.

EDIT: added wikipedia quotation

[quote]Karol Wojtyła was ordained a priest on 1 November 1946, by the Archbishop of Kraków, Cardinal Adam Stefan Sapieha. He then travelled to Rome to begin doctoral studies in the Pontifical Athenaeum of St Thomas Aquinas ("the Angelicum"). There he became well versed in theology and politics. He studied writings of pope Gregory I, the teachings of Saint John of the Cross, the phenomenology of Max Scheler. He also studied Yves Congar, an important theoretician of ecumenism. He lived for two years in Rome in the Belgian College. The college was small with twenty-two resident student-priests and seminarians, among them five Americans. In this polyglot environment, Wojtyła could improve his French and practice his German, while he began to study Italian and English. In his doctoral thesis, which examined St John of the Cross's understanding of faith, Wojtyła emphasised the personal nature of the human encounter with God. Returning to Poland in the summer of 1948, his first pastoral assignment was to the village of Niegowić, fifteen miles from Kraków. In March 1949, he was transferred to Saint Florian's parish in Kraków. He taught ethics at the Jagiellonian University in Kraków and subsequently at the Catholic University of Lublin. Wojtyła gathered a group of fewer than twenty young people, who began to call themselves Rodzinka, the "little family", who met for prayer, philosophical discussion, and helping the blind and sick. Rodzinka continued to grow. Wojtyła's young friends began to call him Wujek (Uncle) to avoid outsiders from guessing he was a priest on outside trips. As the Wojtyła's circle grew, and their bond deepened, several weddings occurred in the group. Eventually there were some 200 people in his circle, which came to be called Środowisko, meaning roughly "milieu". Wojtyła and his group went on both skiing and kayaking trips annually. On the annual kayaking trip, Wojtyła used to have a two-man kayak and others would join him for conversation or spiritual direction. [b]Mass was celebrated using an overturned kayak as an altar, and two paddles as a cross[/b]. Once, in 1955, the kayakers took part in an international competition through a gorge on the Dunajec River. Wujek's kayak was punctured and sank at the finish line. Fr Wojtyła wrote a series of articles in Kraków's Catholic newspaper Tygodnik Powszechny [Universal Weekly] dealing with contemporary church issues.

Karol Wojtyła's literary work blossomed in his first dozen years as a priest. The war, life under communism, and his pastoral responsibilities all fed his poems and plays. These were published under two pseudonyms-Andrzej Jawień, and Stanisław Andrzej Gruda. He used these pseudonyms firstly to distinguish his literary from his religious writings, which were published under his own name, and also so that his literary work would be considered on their own merits rather than as clerical curiosities.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biography_of_Pope_John_Paul_II"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biography_of_Pope_John_Paul_II[/url]

[/quote]

Edited February 24, 2006 by Church Punk

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Church Punk' date='Feb 24 2006, 11:58 AM']Former Fr. Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II) used to celebrate outdoor mass on kayak trips doing the same type of method making the boat into an alter to celebrate mass.

EDIT: added wikipedia quotation
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Is this wrong to do?

[Church Punk]

We used to have outdoor masses in the summer time at my high school, because it would be too hot in the gymnasim and the chapel could not house 2500 students/ teachers/ parents.

It is a very fond memory I have of that school. When mass was ended Father held everyone there for an extra 10 minutes and did a brief talk on baptism. This was the cue to turn the football field sprinkler system on. What a riot!

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Church Punk' date='Feb 24 2006, 12:12 PM']We used to have outdoor masses in the summer time at my high school, because it would be too hot in the gymnasim and the chapel could not house 2500 students/ teachers/ parents.

It is a very fond memory I have of that school. When mass was ended Father held everyone there for an extra 10 minutes and did a brief talk on baptism. This was the cue to turn the football field sprinkler system on. What a riot!
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Oh my gosh!

That does sound like a good memory though...

[stbernardLT]

Would it make sense to blame the church for someone not following along with the readings during mass. Eventhough there was a time when missals or even bibles were unavailable, of course not. The church changed its thinking on the faithful and scripture reading a long time ago but we don't blame the church for some catholics lack of understanding of scripture. So why then would we blame LIFE TEEN who has openly and very carefully expressed to parishes the need to do things correctly for the faults of those people and priest it is ministering to. This is unfair even if you disagree with LIFE TEEN. Everyone has freewill and can choose to obey are disobey. And on the other hand even sins against the Liturgy can be forgiven if repentence is sought through reconciliation. I guess whoever cast the stones on this topic have never missed mass, received communion unworthily, or even as teens were irreverent at mass. I think those would be liturgical abuses also, even if they weren't done as a community.

I am a LIFE TEEN youth minister in South Louisiana and I can tell you that LIFE TEEN has made a great effort to make right what might be considered wrong. I have a problem with those of you who list faults with LIFE TEEN who have never been a part of the program or have never used their resources. Their resources and our parish program have a lot of solid cathecesis, mostly about the reverence owed to God as our creator and also as our friend. Yes that's right Jesus did say in John that we are his friends. How can you say that having service projects with 50-70 teens giving up their Saturday morning isn't a good thing, or retreats where teens are giving the oppurtunity for healing that they couldn't find in other places not needed. As for liturgy, I suppose some of you not only read the cathechism but also the document on the Inculturation and Liturgy, it actually says something about lifting our hands and using drums, wow I guess I'm not a pagan after all. We have seen families come back to church because of evangilization through LIFE TEEN. If we are truly catholic in the way we live we must acknowledge forgiveness and rejoice at the return of the lost sheep. If you didn't agree with LIFE TEEN'S approach before they made these changes you should be rejoicing now for their return to unity. Don't judge a person's mental capability just because they have a broken finger. Don't judge LIFE TEEN just because some people has a messed up idea of obedience.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 01:59 PM']Would it make sense to blame the church  for someone not following along with the readings during mass.  Eventhough there was a time when missals or even bibles were unavailable, of course not.  The church changed its thinking on the faithful and scripture reading a long time ago but we don't blame the church for some catholics lack of understanding of scripture.  So why then would we blame LIFE TEEN who has openly and very carefully expressed to parishes the need to do things correctly for the faults of those people and priest it is ministering to.  This is unfair even if you disagree with LIFE TEEN.  Everyone has freewill and can choose to obey are disobey.  And on the other hand even sins against the Liturgy can be forgiven if repentence is sought through reconciliation.  I guess whoever cast the stones on this topic have never missed mass, received communion unworthily, or even as teens were irreverent at mass.  I think those would be liturgical abuses also, even if they weren't done as a community.

I am a LIFE TEEN youth minister in South Louisiana and I can tell you that LIFE TEEN has made a great effort to make right what might be considered wrong.  I have a problem with those of you who list faults with LIFE TEEN who have never been a part of the program or have never used their resources.  Their resources and our parish program have a lot of solid cathecesis, mostly about the reverence owed to God as our creator and also as our friend. Yes that's right Jesus did say in John that we are his friends.  How can you say that having service projects with 50-70 teens giving up their Saturday morning isn't a good thing, or retreats where teens are giving the oppurtunity for healing that they couldn't find in other places not needed.  As for liturgy, I suppose some of you not only read the cathechism but also the document on the Inculturation and Liturgy,  it actually says something about lifting our hands and using drums, wow I guess I'm not a pagan after all.  We have seen families come back to church because of evangilization through LIFE TEEN.  If we are truly catholic in the way we live we must acknowledge forgiveness and rejoice at the return of the lost sheep.  If you didn't agree with LIFE TEEN'S approach before they made these changes you should be rejoicing now for their return to unity.  Don't judge a person's mental capability just because they have a broken finger.  Don't judge LIFE TEEN just because some people has a messed up idea of obedience.
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LT has to do is obey the GIRM and other directives on music and liturgy like everyone else.
Welcome to phatmass.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 12:59 PM']Would it make sense to blame the church  for someone not following along with the readings during mass.  Eventhough there was a time when missals or even bibles were unavailable, of course not.  The church changed its thinking on the faithful and scripture reading a long time ago but we don't blame the church for some catholics lack of understanding of scripture.  So why then would we blame LIFE TEEN who has openly and very carefully expressed to parishes the need to do things correctly for the faults of those people and priest it is ministering to.  This is unfair even if you disagree with LIFE TEEN.  Everyone has freewill and can choose to obey are disobey.  And on the other hand even sins against the Liturgy can be forgiven if repentence is sought through reconciliation.  I guess whoever cast the stones on this topic have never missed mass, received communion unworthily, or even as teens were irreverent at mass.  I think those would be liturgical abuses also, even if they weren't done as a community.

I am a LIFE TEEN youth minister in South Louisiana and I can tell you that LIFE TEEN has made a great effort to make right what might be considered wrong.  I have a problem with those of you who list faults with LIFE TEEN who have never been a part of the program or have never used their resources.  Their resources and our parish program have a lot of solid cathecesis, mostly about the reverence owed to God as our creator and also as our friend. Yes that's right Jesus did say in John that we are his friends.  How can you say that having service projects with 50-70 teens giving up their Saturday morning isn't a good thing, or retreats where teens are giving the oppurtunity for healing that they couldn't find in other places not needed.  As for liturgy, I suppose some of you not only read the cathechism but also the document on the Inculturation and Liturgy,  it actually says something about lifting our hands and using drums, wow I guess I'm not a pagan after all.  We have seen families come back to church because of evangilization through LIFE TEEN.  If we are truly catholic in the way we live we must acknowledge forgiveness and rejoice at the return of the lost sheep.  If you didn't agree with LIFE TEEN'S approach before they made these changes you should be rejoicing now for their return to unity.  Don't judge a person's mental capability just because they have a broken finger.  Don't judge LIFE TEEN just because some people has a messed up idea of obedience.
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Well.....that was interesting.

Welcome to Phatmass. Bring on the heat! I can tell you right now, we will be arguing different points. lol

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Feb 24 2006, 02:59 PM']Would it make sense to blame the church  for someone not following along with the readings during mass.  Eventhough there was a time when missals or even bibles were unavailable, of course not.  The church changed its thinking on the faithful and scripture reading a long time ago but we don't blame the church for some catholics lack of understanding of scripture.  So why then would we blame LIFE TEEN who has openly and very carefully expressed to parishes the need to do things correctly for the faults of those people and priest it is ministering to.  This is unfair even if you disagree with LIFE TEEN.  Everyone has freewill and can choose to obey are disobey.  And on the other hand even sins against the Liturgy can be forgiven if repentence is sought through reconciliation.  I guess whoever cast the stones on this topic have never missed mass, received communion unworthily, or even as teens were irreverent at mass.  I think those would be liturgical abuses also, even if they weren't done as a community.

I am a LIFE TEEN youth minister in South Louisiana and I can tell you that LIFE TEEN has made a great effort to make right what might be considered wrong.  I have a problem with those of you who list faults with LIFE TEEN who have never been a part of the program or have never used their resources.  Their resources and our parish program have a lot of solid cathecesis, mostly about the reverence owed to God as our creator and also as our friend. Yes that's right Jesus did say in John that we are his friends.  How can you say that having service projects with 50-70 teens giving up their Saturday morning isn't a good thing, or retreats where teens are giving the oppurtunity for healing that they couldn't find in other places not needed.  As for liturgy, I suppose some of you not only read the cathechism but also the document on the Inculturation and Liturgy,  it actually says something about lifting our hands and using drums, wow I guess I'm not a pagan after all.  We have seen families come back to church because of evangilization through LIFE TEEN.  If we are truly catholic in the way we live we must acknowledge forgiveness and rejoice at the return of the lost sheep.  If you didn't agree with LIFE TEEN'S approach before they made these changes you should be rejoicing now for their return to unity.  Don't judge a person's mental capability just because they have a broken finger.  Don't judge LIFE TEEN just because some people has a messed up idea of obedience.
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how much is just lip service to reverence and how much is that reverence actually practiced? Photographs such as these indicate that the general attitude of irreverence or "personalization" remains.