Fides_et_Ratio Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Actually, Ash Wednesday's point about needing good solid catechesis is right on the money. It is catechesis that will foster devotion and understanding... even to the most "boring" of liturgies with "old songs" and whateverelsehaveyou. Too bad Life Teen didn't focus on bettering catechesis, then they might've been cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 20 2006, 07:42 PM']you, me and Fides rule. Ash Wednesday is cool too, but she hasn't posted a quotation of my awesome words along with her ringing endorsement of my timeless wisdom. [right][snapback]893164[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Toledo_Jesus is one of the wisest sages and intellectually-gifted persons I've ever met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 look ye in the OPEN MIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 20 2006, 03:17 PM'] My mom had an old vinyl from the 60s called the Electric Prunes. They were a psychedelic group that did their own music for the mass. Music that meant to "bend back" to people -- as it says on the vinyl sleeve. To be honest, I love the music the same way I love some of the music of Hendrix. But the idea of seeing it in something as timeless as the mass today makes it become an item of humor and kitsch. Kind of like the way we laugh at ugly churches built in the 70s and have avocado green carpet. [right][snapback]893003[/snapback][/right] [/quote] They were featured on the [i]Easy Rider[/i] soundtrack - during the LSD-sex-in-the-graveyard sequence. They do parts of chant with psychedelic acid rock. "The Electric Prunes" -gotta love that name - it's so '60s, shagadelic, smashing, switched on, groovy, baby, yeah! I had no idea their music was actually intended to be used in the mass, though! I agree with Ash - I think the sooner liturgists stop trying to make the mass relevent for "the youth," the better. People need to be taught that worship and the mass does not exist for out entertainment. We've been doing variations of this garbage for 40 years now, and have seen a decrease, not an increase, in people's faith. I also think the mass needs to be truly universal, not segregrated for different age groups. This reminds me of when I was in Catholic school as a kid, and the school had special masses for the kindergarteners (which the whole school would participate in, though) with a selection of childish music ("if I was a fish in the sea, I'd wiggle my tail and I'd giggle with glee!") Such silliness did little to instill a sense of reverence towards the mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Oh LifeTeen..... It does so many good things in such a mediocre way.... I have to admit when LifeTeen came to my parish it was a refreshing burst of substance over the fluff we previously had....but that just goes to show how horrible our catechesis was to begin with, not necessarily how good Lifeteen was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 20 2006, 09:00 PM']They were featured on the [i]Easy Rider[/i] soundtrack - during the LSD-sex-in-the-graveyard sequence. They do parts of chant with psychedelic acid rock. "The Electric Prunes" -gotta love that name - it's so '60s, shagadelic, smashing, switched on, groovy, baby, yeah! I had no idea their music was actually intended to be used in the mass, though! I agree with Ash - I think the sooner liturgists stop trying to make the mass relevent for "the youth," the better. People need to be taught that worship and the mass does not exist for out entertainment. We've been doing variations of this garbage for 40 years now, and have seen a decrease, not an increase, in people's faith. I also think the mass needs to be truly universal, not segregrated for different age groups. This reminds me of when I was in Catholic school as a kid, and the school had special masses for the kindergarteners (which the whole school would participate in, though) with a selection of childish music ("if I was a fish in the sea, I'd wiggle my tail and I'd giggle with glee!") Such silliness did little to instill a sense of reverence towards the mass. [right][snapback]893275[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Socrates, you agree with Ash Wednesday. She rules because she agrees with me. you are one degree away from agreeing with me. If you take that step then you rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC IMaGiNaZUN Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Feb 20 2006, 05:54 PM']Actually, Ash Wednesday's point about needing good solid catechesis is right on the money. It is catechesis that will foster devotion and understanding... even to the most "boring" of liturgies with "old songs" and whateverelsehaveyou. Too bad Life Teen didn't focus on bettering catechesis, then they might've been cool. [right][snapback]893188[/snapback][/right] [/quote] My experience was with Life Teen that we always provided solid catechesis. I would have had more emphasis on the mystery behind the mass at mine, but we had a real good base. But i can say, aside from the "liturgical abuse debate" that everyone seems to be getting very heated up in here over... In my experience in life, i cannot help but encounter heartbroken lonely teenagers from all backgrounds and lifestyles. They feel increasingly alienated from God, but moreso from their parents, their teachers, their church, and their peers. They go about trying and consuming whatever they believe will fill their heart. And they know it is wrong, they know it will hurt them. But they never cared, to take care. And the problem is, they are being told so much that they are wrong, immature, foolish, worthless, ugly, incapable, idiotic, and burdensome to society. And they will live well up to their expectations while saturating themselves with sex, drugs, and rock n roll. It may seem at first glance, that church and God are just not something relevant to teens, because their whole experience of life, relationships, media, and culture are deprived of it. I believe the opposite. That teens feel that they are irrelevent to God and to church. And this is something they take for granted to an extreme degree. In fact, they don't pass a thought or much feeling to it, and as a result, because church has diminished in value in our culture they don't see it as relevent. But teens are countercultural! They want to make a difference! But they just believe, as does our culture, and sometimes their parents and churches, don't believe they ever will make a difference. SO honestly, we can all sit around and bash on "bad liturgies" in life teen, but we seem to ignore all the stuff they are doing to bring young people into devotion to the eucharist, and transforming hearts! SHALOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 It's funny that when ever there is a thread on Life Teen, it always polarizes this board to "those against Life Teen" and "those for Life Teen." It's especially fun to see Church Faithful duke it out! ahhh...Life Teen. Whatever happened to CYO? Better yet, what about MAYA or ByzanTeen? No change in the Divine Liturgy, yet good solid Catechsis. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 First of all, I think we're all arguing out of our own experiences, which seem to vary widely. On this thread, who has been seriously involved with youth ministry? Second, I help out w/ a CYO...and... It's always seemed to me that the CYO's that I've encountered have been little more than sports and social clubs. Our YM and I are trying to evangelize and catechize, but it certainly is an uphill battle. I'd have to contrast that with other youth groups (LifeTEEN, various charismatic youth groups) who are certainly there more than just for socializing. In fact, if it weren't for the particular YMs my parish just hired, I wouldn't bother to help out there. Really, I don't care what sort of youth group it is, I just want it to evangelize and catechize successfully. I want it to produce holy, enthusiastic Catholics, whether they're charismatic, "traditional" or whatever, as long as they're orthodox and strong in their faith. The most success I've seen has been in LifeTEEN type groups, not in more traditional groups. I've seen it entice people to the faith, then they find that a different spirituality is more their thing. I've also seen people stay in a charismatic environment and love it. I've also seen people fall away. That's an unfortunate by-product of free will. Look at the parable of the sower. He sows many many seeds. Not all of them wind up bearing fruit, but some do. I say he did his part. The important thing, in my opinion, with these youth groups, whatever kind they may be, is that the YMs leading it must have a very solid orthodox faith. They must also have the talent and personality to draw people in. I have a good head on my shoulders, but I don't have the personality. That's why I'm just helping out rather than being the YM. Finally, I want to restate what I had said before: YMs have to draw the teens to Christ. In order to do that, they cannot marginalize the teens, nor can they stand down from orthodoxy. It's a fine line they have to walk, and it isn't easy. Teens usually expect flak and disrespect from adults simply because they're young. Consequentially, they write them off. Once you've lost their respect, its nearly impossible to get them to hear the Gospel when it comes from your mouth. They'll have ears, but won't hear, and eyes, but won't see, and it's heavy-handed, condescending attitudes that will go far in making that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' date='Feb 20 2006, 10:26 AM']My chaplain friend in Iraq has an indoor church. [right][snapback]892653[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you talking about Fr. Kane. They are actually in the process of building a new Church on the base. isn't that the coolest thing ever. They got a little delayed because of weather though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:42 PM']you, me and Fides rule. Ash Wednesday is cool too, but she hasn't posted a quotation of my awesome words along with her ringing endorsement of my timeless wisdom. [right][snapback]893164[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I wasn't agreeing with you to build up your ego. Have a little humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole8223 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 scardella, you made a good point. Being involved in youth ministry makes a difference in the perspectives being presented. I have been involved in youth ministry for quite a while. I started in a parish youth group, which offered the things you mentioned: sports, pizza parties, bowling, and that was about it. We were lucky if they did an opening prayer. I left that to help with another youth program, this time it was not parish based. It was hardcore: Eucharistic Adoration once a month, catechetical talks once a week, serious focus on developing your relationship with the Lord personally, not just communally. Through this group, I saw amazing changes. The eastern regional director of Lifeteen actually came to us and told us she wanted Lifeteen to have what we had. She said at this point, Lifeteen was only a small stepping stone to lead the kids into groups like the one I was working with. I don't see why there needs to be a stepping stone. We need teens to understand that the Mass is for them NOW...without guitars, and skits, and handholding. The Mass reaches them without any of that. In my experience, presenting the truth, without alterations or watering it down, is what teens respond to most. Through the group I was with, we have had many voactions to the priesthood, religious life, and marriage. Only because the foundation was Church teaching and the focus was the Eucharist and the sacraments. I don't see that in Lifeteen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Nicole8223' date='Feb 21 2006, 10:09 AM']I don't see why there needs to be a stepping stone. We need teens to understand that the Mass is for them NOW...without guitars, and skits, and handholding. The Mass reaches them without any of that. In my experience, presenting the truth, without alterations or watering it down, is what teens respond to most. Through the group I was with, we have had many voactions to the priesthood, religious life, and marriage. Only because the foundation was Church teaching and the focus was the Eucharist and the sacraments. I don't see that in Lifeteen. [right][snapback]893702[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I absolutely agree with you! That was exactly what I was trying to say. Why can't teens just take it without any of those things? Why doesnt the mass mean more to them then what is portrayed in LifeTeen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='Anthony' date='Feb 21 2006, 11:21 AM']I wasn't agreeing with you to build up your ego. Have a little humility. [right][snapback]893677[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hahaha you are hilarious. Because...obviously you're joking. No intelligent human being could have missed the fact that I was being extremely sardonic in my posts. And I know you're intelligent, because you agree with me. It's science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Ora and Nicole are perilously close to Ruling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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