photosynthesis Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The only "ultimate way" to holiness is the way God has chosen you to do. If I am called to be a nun, that is the ultimate way I can live a life of holiness. If I am called to be a single woman working in the midst of the world, then that is the best way I can serve God. If I am called to be a missionary, then that is what's best for me. The list goes on and on. The best vocation is the one that YOU are called to. God has a plan for each and every one of us, and this plan leads us to salvation. The call to religious life + priesthood is a higher calling, but I would avoid using the word superior simply because priests + religious are not superior to people who are living out other vocations. In fact, because of the higher nature of their calling, their vocations require more humility and a greater desire to serve, not to be served. Also, simply because a person is celibate does not imply that they are a virgin. There are a lot of priests, monks + nuns out there that weren't always living chaste lives. Look at St. Augustine.. he went from being a womanizing hedonist to a holy Bishop + doctor of the Church. Their vocations are a testimony that anyone can turn their life around and become chaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:25 PM']I think that religious vocations are holier and better than non religious ones. That doesn't necessarily mean that a priest is holier than you or I. It does mean that a priest has the capacity to be holier (and therefore better) by virtue of his vocation. [right][snapback]893990[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Exactly... priesthood + religious life are higher holier vocations because they have chosen "the better half," they are serving God and God alone. but a holy vocation does not necessarily imply that God loves priests or religious more than the garbagemen, waitresses + lawyers. A garbageman who is living out the fullness of his vocation is holier than a priest who is lacking in the most basic of virtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 photosynthesis, I was totally with you until you threw in the lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 21 2006, 04:44 PM']photosynthesis, I was totally with you until you threw in the lawyers. [right][snapback]894001[/snapback][/right] [/quote] we talked about this in the marriage thread... ill see if i can dig up some of my posts from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Some responses start here by other phatmassers... [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43084&st=175#"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=43084&st=175#[/url] my response: why why why?!?! marriage can never be brought up without SOMEONE pointing out that they have a higher calling and then someone else getting all offended. yes we have the lower calling. yes we have the less noble vocation. YES we do the dirty work of raising the stinkers that get the higher vocations. SO WHAT?!?!? it is OUR calling and we should embrace it! we should embrace our lowly positions on the earth and raise saints! how else do you get the priests and brothers and sisters? we're not useless, we're called to a lesser state. we too are holy (or can try to be holy) and though some may not recognize it, we are equals in the Father's eyes. hurumph... this is my least favorite discussion... ( [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43084&view=findpost&p=839629"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ndpost&p=839629[/url] ) and some points made by L_D But one would err to denigrate marriage. As Chrysostom says: "Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be particularly good. It is something better than what is admitted to be good that is the most excellent good." It is not devaluing marriage, it is rather seeing it in the proper perspective. It is not necessary or even proper to devalue marriage to appreciate the objective superiority of consecrated life. JP2 sums it up well: "The superiority of continence to matrimony in the authentic Tradition of the Church never means disparagement of marriage or belittlement of its essential value." It's not a contest of which vocation is better, it is rather an affirmation of the value in renouncing the good of marriage and family for the sake of the kingdom. The two states must be understood in their complimentarity, not in opposition to one another. I also pointed out the irony that devaluing consecrated life, or attempting to bring it down to the same level as marriage, actually has the effect of totally devaluing marriage. They are complimentary, and when this complimentarity is denied, neither vocations can be properly understood. It is not a denigration of marriage to recognize that consecrated life is objectively "higher" than marriage, anymore than it is a denigration of this world to recognize that heaven is "higher" or "superior". In fact, I'd say that it is in light of the superiority of celibacy for the kingdom that we can fully appreciate the great goodness and value of marriage. ( [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43084&view=findpost&p=839947"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ndpost&p=839947[/url] ) please not that my only frustration with the topic is that some like to point out how low our vocation is compared to theirs... but no one should be compared in that way to anyone else. i dont think its right to compare 'holiness' at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friarMatt Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 [quote]please not that my only frustration with the topic is that some like to point out how low our vocation is compared to theirs... but no one should be compared in that way to anyone else. i dont think its right to compare 'holiness' at all. [/quote] THANK YOU!!!! My feeling is that anyone who feels the need to emphasis that their vocation is higher then others, has some real insecurity issues that s/he is trying to overcompensate for. I am not sensing that from people on the list, but that has just been my experience in the past.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You make a good point friarMatt. I'm glad that you qualified your post by saying that you weren't sensing that from people here because I agree. With that said, I think it is important that those discerning religious vocations fully understand the nature of the vocation that they are feeling called to, wouldn't you agree? Certainly, ragging that one's vocation is higher than another would be uncharitable. Understanding that one's vocation is a higher calling and sharing that with other discerners though is fruitful. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All For Jesus Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 21 2006, 04:25 PM']Well said Eddie. I certainly agree that each vocation is beautiful but if 'higher' doesn't mean better or more holy, what does it mean? I think that religious vocations are holier and better than non religious ones. That doesn't necessarily mean that a priest is holier than you or I. It does mean that a priest has the capacity to be holier (and therefore better) by virtue of his vocation. God bless our priests and religious. [right][snapback]893990[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oops...let me correct myself. I meant that it doesn't mean that the people themselves are necessarily better or holier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friarMatt Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote]With that said, I think it is important that those discerning religious vocations fully understand the nature of the vocation that they are feeling called to, wouldn't you agree?[/quote] I do agree...it is quite important to know the responsabilities...i dount that ignorance would be a suitable defense for not living up to be, who we professed to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='jezic' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:05 PM'] priesthood is equal to marriage. There is not one that is greater than the other. [right][snapback]893393[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is heresy, and was anathematized by the Council of Trent. Vatican II did not change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='brendan1104' date='Feb 21 2006, 07:58 PM']That is heresy, and was anathematized by the Council of Trent. Vatican II did not change that. [right][snapback]894176[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Down boy! Where do you think you are, the debate table? This is the Vocation Station, we're kinder and gentler here. : Well...usually. Well...sometimes Oh...forget I said anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 21 2006, 10:04 PM']Down boy! Where do you think you are, the debate table? This is the Vocation Station, we're kinder and gentler here. : Well...usually. Well...sometimes Oh...forget I said anything. [right][snapback]894305[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sorry... lol. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowak.chris Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 The religious life is a higher calling, higher risk for your soul higher expectaions higher level of reserved for you if you fall and possibly, maybe, if you live your calling to the fullest, higher glory in heaven Duties and Dignities puts it in a similar perspective, but I do not recomend it to be read lightly (although how anyone could read that lightly!) chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Feb 21 2006, 05:59 PM']please not that my only frustration with the topic is that some like to point out how low our vocation is compared to theirs... but no one should be compared in that way to anyone else. i dont think its right to compare 'holiness' at all. [right][snapback]894009[/snapback][/right] [/quote] amen... humility is absolutely key here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC IMaGiNaZUN Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 The Catholic Church needs Holy Priests... The World needs Holy Men... SHALOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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