What makes a healthy parish?

[Cam42]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Feb 19 2006, 02:19 PM']i'm not talking about the council, i called the so called "spirit" that the liberals apply to it phony..
[right][snapback]891820[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

You sure are talking about the Council. If there was no Vatican Council II would there be a "spirit" of Vatican II? No.

So, [i]de facto[/i], you are talking about the Council and the fruits of that Council (ie. documents of VII).

I could easily say, and probably should have said, in order to be consistent.....

Orthodoxy meaning, they didnt slaughter the Tridentine document (Quo Primum Tempore) with misenterpratations. Ya know that phony "spirit" of Trent. In relation to the SSPX. Doesn't sound so nice, now does it? However, it is more accurate.

[Socrates]

My parish is orthodox, and generally fairly "conservative." It has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past 20 or so years, and there is high mass attendance, as well as participation in such activities as Eucharistic adoration. There are usually long lines for confessions.

There are many younger people and large families at the parish - it is not "old people only" like some parishes I've seen.

The growth in the parish can in part be explained by demographics, as the area has been rapidly growing, but orthodoxy I think is definitely a factor. Many have moved to the area from elsewhere specifically because of the orthodox Catholic community that has grown up here.

The dicocese, which also tends to be one of the most orthodox and "conservative" in the country has also seen comparitively large numbers of vocations, while "liberal" dicoceses are suffering a "vocations crisis."

There does seem to be a connection between orthodoxy and growth - something which "liberal Catholics" seem to "just not get."
I know of few willing to travel great distances, or even relocate, to be part of a liberal parish.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 19 2006, 12:41 PM']  Many have moved to the area from elsewhere specifically because of the orthodox Catholic community that has grown up here.

[right][snapback]891830[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Before I moved to my present house, I went to Mass at the local parish to check it out. When I saw they did not use altar girls (this was before the Vatican removed the ban), I decided to go ahead and move into the neighborhood.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 19 2006, 02:41 PM']My parish is orthodox, and generally fairly "conservative."  It has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past 20 or so years, and there is high mass attendance, as well as participation in such activities as Eucharistic adoration.  There are usually long lines for confessions.

There are many younger people and large families at the parish - it is not "old people only" like some parishes I've seen.

The growth in the parish can in part be explained by demographics, as the area has been rapidly growing, but orthodoxy I think is definitely a factor.  Many have moved to the area from elsewhere specifically because of the orthodox Catholic community that has grown up here.

The dicocese, which also tends to be one of the most orthodox and "conservative" in the country has also seen comparitively large numbers of vocations, while "liberal" dicoceses are suffering a "vocations crises."

There does seem to be a connection between orthodoxy and growth - something which "liberal Catholics" seem to "just not get."
I know of few willing to travel great distances, or even relocate, to be part of a liberal parish.
[right][snapback]891830[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I think that all things being equal, because you included adoration, it speaks directly to hot stuff's point. I think that you'll find that most parishes, liberal or conservative that flourish have some form of adoration.

People, whether liberal or conservative, are moved by the Real Presence. I firmly believe that it is this phenomenon, coupled with regular applications of the other Sacraments that makes the parish flourish, not liberalism or conservatism.

[Norseman82]

Oh, and what I think MC/Akalyte the Just is referring to is the fact that "the spirit of Vatican 2" is often used as a "code word" to try to impose a heterodox agenda on the church. I would like to think that we ALL know that Vatican II did NOT get rid of the 7 sacraments or the 10 commandments.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 19 2006, 12:42 PM']Thought I'd throw some randoms in as a former Catholic. One, if it were a conservative priest, it wouldn't necessarily be any more attended at least as far as attendig goes. Often times conservative priests scare away the public. Then you'd complain about the liberal laity.
[right][snapback]891784[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Tell that to my pastor who loses parishioners to Fr. Val Peter down the street who has at least 1000 people at every Mass every Sunday in a chapel that only seats 600 or so.

Fr. Val Peter writes for Our Sunday Visitor.

Besides, the Lincoln Diocese provides wonderful statistics. The bishop recognized those who wished to excommunicate themselves. The Newman Center in Lincoln, a COLLEGE PARISH at a LIBERAL state institution, is the most orthodox parish in the most orthodox diocese in the United States. Fr. Robert Matya there attracts tons of students with his orthodoxy.

You might not get as many people to come to Church when you're orthodox, but you won't get any fewer faithful people.

Those who would leave because of orthodoxy weren't going to Mass for the right reasons, anyway.

We must pray that they return, but we mustn't think that smaller numbers means less faithful people.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 19 2006, 01:06 PM']I think that all things being equal, because you included adoration, it speaks directly to hot stuff's point.  I think that you'll find that most parishes, liberal or conservative that flourish have some form of adoration.

People, whether liberal or conservative, are moved by the Real Presence.  I firmly believe that it is this phenomenon, coupled with regular applications of the other Sacraments that makes the parish flourish, not liberalism or conservatism.
[right][snapback]891842[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I was really speaking in my post about orthodoxy vs. heterodoxy, not about political persuasions - thus my use of words "conservative" and "liberal" in quotes.
"Liberal Catholicism" is commonly used to mean modernist-leaning "Catholicism" which tends to reject or question the authority of the Church and Scripture and Church moral and doctrinal teaching, which downplays the sacredness of the liturgy and the sacraments, favoring various goofy "innovations," and which focuses on "social" political agendas at the expense of moral and spiritual teaching.

(And, incidentally, in my experience, orthodox Catholics tend to also lean conservative politically, and "liberal" Catholics tend to lean politically left, though that is a whole different topic and is not directly relevant to my points.)

[Cam42]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 19 2006, 03:31 PM']I was really speaking in my post about orthodoxy vs. heterodoxy, not about political persuasions - thus my use of words "conservative" and "liberal" in quotes.
"Liberal Catholicism" is commonly used to mean modernist-leaning "Catholicism" which tends to reject or question the authority of the Church and Scripture and Church moral and doctrinal teaching, which downplays the sacredness of the liturgy and the sacraments, favoring various goofy "innovations," and which focuses on "social" political agendas at the expense of moral and spiritual teaching.

(And, incidentally, in my experience, orthodox Catholics tend to also lean conservative politically, and "liberal" Catholics tend to lean politically left, though that is a whole different topic and is not directly relevant to my points.)
[right][snapback]891856[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I know what you meant.

[MC Just]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Feb 19 2006, 01:07 PM']Oh, and what I think MC/Akalyte the Just is referring to is the fact that "the spirit of Vatican 2" is often used as a "code word" to try to impose a heterodox agenda on the church.  I would like to think that we ALL know that Vatican II did NOT get rid of the 7 sacraments or the 10 commandments.
[right][snapback]891843[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

thats exactly what i was getting at. i'm no schismatic and i accept the council. Thanks...

Edited February 19, 2006 by MC Just

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 19 2006, 02:12 PM']I know what you meant.
[right][snapback]891883[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Orthodox Catholic parishes promote such things as Eucharistic adoration, and proper understanding and respect for the Blessed Sacrament and other sacraments.
"Liberal Catholicism" for the most part does not.

If you know what I mean, good. No need to try to start a fight over this.

[Lilllabettt]

What makes a healthy parish? Adoration, devotions, reverential liturgy ... gives parishes strong bones and big biceps.

And another thing ... cassocks. Yup. Matrix-style.

[journeyman]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 19 2006, 12:41 PM']

The dicocese, which also tends to be one of the most orthodox and "conservative" in the country has also seen comparitively large numbers of vocations, while "liberal" dicoceses are suffering a "vocations crisis."



[right][snapback]891830[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Arlington?

Adding Adoration was my contribution to the last parish council "long range planning" question . . .

I suspect I need to start researching the benefits so I can quantify why it should be a higher priority than I suspect it will receive

[KnightofChrist]

Teaching the word of Jesus Christ. Plus the evangelization of those whom are not Catholic. Equals a stonger and healthier parish. Many times Catholics fail to evangelize. I purpose priest before, at or after mass ask whose who are not Catholic to learn more about Christ and His Church, by giving out some kind of prayer book or info about RCIA. Many people come to mass that are not catholic, but if they are never invinted to stay why would they?

[Myles Domini]

Everyone watching Fr Groeschel's show on the Church right now, yeah?

[Dave]

Loyalty to the Holy Father + Devotion to the Holy Eucharist + Devotion to Our Blessed Mother = Healthy, Faithful Parish