President Bush Says He's A Christian Man

[LTNgurl]

- Saddam should not be put to death. It is not our right to take a human life. Thats Gods job. There is no way that i can think of that Saddam could pay 'the last penny,' so there's nothing to fear from him as far as rising up to power again.

- He should be jailed. Remember that the purpose of jailing someone is not merely to imprison them, but rather to rehabilitate them. One might argue that Saddams actions are irreconcilable, and that there's no way to turn a man like him around. Perhaps this is true but he still has as much a right to life and human dignity as any other human being does.

i voted no,..i dont think saddam deserves the death penalty...it is not our job to end his life but God. that is why i agree with the reasons quoted above.

[jasJis]

Let's clear up a few things.

It's the Iraqis who will try Saddam.

It's the Iraqis who will sentence Saddam.

It's the Iraqis who will carry out the sentence.

The US Government is going to give Saddam to the Iraqis, the people Saddam trespassed against. The US Government is also going to assist the Iraqis in having a court that meets the requirements of International Law.

The Pope did not say the death sentence was strictly forbidden except in extreme cases. What the Pope did do, was re-iterate the requirements to pass a death penalty and then made the observation that the current circumstances in the US did not fulfill the requirements to carry out a death penalty. The requirements in Saddam's case would be to protect Society against further deaths. Saddam's life is no more sacrad or valuable then any other Iraqi citizen. His evil actions has consequences for other's lives, as well as his own. His evil actions of causing the deaths of thousands has put him in a situation where Society is to judge the value of his life against the lives of innocents.

Is it reasonable to believe that the Iraqi's can keep Saddam jailed for life and not have all kind of militants attempt armed and violent efforts to free him?

Should the US usurp the right of the Iraq people to judge the dangers Saddam presents to their Society.

Sorry, it's not all about the US, and what it wants. It's easy for us to say "keep him in jail, don't kill him" while we are over here and don't have people with military weapons and knowledge who disagree and don't have any respect for innocents. My Iraqi in-laws have family who live in Mosul and Bahgdad. The Iraqi's aren't ignorant peasants. Then can make the judgement, and deserve to know that many lives have been spent putting them in a situation where they have some say about the leaders. I think it is very important to consider what message the Iraqi people will recieve about defeating tyranny and having an effect on their leaders.

[Paladin D]

Even though one side of me would really enjoy seeing Saddam get the death penality... I would have to say NO.

[CICCIO]

Thank you jasJis. Your insights are profoun. You soundeda bit angry. Im sorry if i helped to bring that about. I suppose i didnt thoroughtly consider the possibility of a jailbrake, but i think it unlikely. Perhaps there s a chance though. Such a possibility drasticaly changes the attitude of a jugment of his life or death. No one should asume that Iraqis are ignorant peasants. And your right that they should judge him. But i still question Bushes ethics. I heard him poking at Saddam for liing in a hole. He quickly began to talk about Osamma. Perhaps he's ready to turn his attention back ot him. Idk, anwyay i like your opinions.

CIAO

[jasJis]

I'm working on the anger thing.:club:

Maybe humour helps...

:fluffy air extraction:

Maybe that's why Bush was joking about Saddam crawiling under a rock and living in a hole. It IS ironiclly funny....::

[JP2Iloveyou]

Ciccio, just because the mainstream media isn't focused on bin Laden doesn't mean Bush isn't. Don't believe everything you read from the media.

[hyperdulia again]

i think we already have bin laden.

[Norseman82]

i think we already have bin laden.

So you're true identity is finally revealed????

(J/K)

[Norseman82]

The death penalty cannot be used except when it is necessary to protect society.  Well, if there is any case where it is necessary this is it.  Letting Saddam live would encourage terrorists, and who is to say that they would not take a school hostage and threaten to blow it up unless we let him go.  We know that this is feasible.  Just look at what is happening in Palestine with all of the homicide bombers. With Saddam alive, the Iraqi resistance will have more to fight for and will continue to kill our troops and innocent Iraqis.

Anyways, since the Pope did not set out when explicitly the death penalty is allowed, this is a prudential judgment of those deciding the case.  So, just like the war, according to Catholic teaching, was a prudential judgment of President Bush, whether or not to execute Saddam is a prudential judgment of those trying him, the United States and the Iraqi Governing Council. 

Personally, I believe that this is one of the few cases where the death penalty is necessary, but like I said that is up to the prudential judgment of those trying the case, going on the guidelines established by the Pope that the death penalty is just only when it is necessary to protect society.

Since this most closely expresses my view of the death penalty, I will just "piggyback" onto this post. Although I believe we should get as much information out of him as possible, I too am worried about the possibility of the threat of a hostage situation or a "jailbreak" situation that could spring Sadaam..

Another thing to consider regarding the ability of a life sentence being able to bloodlessly protect society, I will offer two words: Charles Manson. As I recall, his death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment but he still comes up before the parole board every two years (correct me if I'm wrong).

[hyperdulia again]

i get "feelings" about things, they usually turn out to be true... i felt that the economy would pick up and that we'd find saddam before november 2004...

[CICCIO]

It's not so much that i read in in the media, but that rarely or never heard him talking about Binladin any time he addressed the nation since he began his persuit of overthrowing Saddam. Just Terrorist, Iraq and Saddam. Good point though. :nerd:

[CICCIO]

Not that one should expect Charles Manson to be releaesd any time soon... like never

[oiccic]

eventhough i am the anti-ciccio, i agree with the little man. the pres is not Catholic, this is true, but he is Christian. there are 33,000 non Catholic, Christian churches. it is safe to say that the majority of them are fully agenst the death penalty. we also have to remember were bush comes from, texas. the state that executes more people than anyother. i believe that he is a Christian man, but he obviously is a no-holds-barred man when it comes to the death penalty. this may have been what prompted his statement on saddams fate. he also knows that saddam killed millions of people, mostly by torture. and that most americans and iraqis would like to see him die. so, his words may have been politicaly motivated. this does not make them right, however. that is why he may have said it.

as for if the death penalty is justified in this case, no. CCC 2267 says "...the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if it is the only possible way to effectivly defending human lives against the unjust agressor... the cases in which the execution is and absolute nessesity 'are very rare, if not non practically non-exsitatnt." yes, someone could hold a school hostage if we dont let him go. but i doubt it, and we have no proof it will happen; or anything like it. so we can not recorse to kill him because of that. just the same way we can not abort a baby because it MIGHT hurt the mother. or the same way i cant kill you because you may one day kill me. the only reson to kill him is revenge, and we as Catholics, Christians, and humans can not let our selves fall to that. CCC 2262 the Surmon on the Mount "...You shall not kill,' adds to it the proscription of anger, hatred, and vengeance."

saddam first seeing american soldiers :shock:

[Lounge Daddy]

the church says that the death penalty can be used to protect society from an individual, i think the execution of pres. hussein might meet that standard, but i'm not a theologian so i don't know. eithher way we should be praying for sadam AND for pres. bush.

Amen, brother.

At any rate, it will me interesting for to watch (and pray) and see how this all plays out.

Will the Iraqis try him? Is Iraq stable enough politically and judicially to grant a proper trial? How long before the American Civil Liberties Union demands amnesty for Saddam?

These are big questions and only time will give us the answers.

[CICCIO]

I fear a chance that Saddam's preservation of life could lead to insiting more violnce motivated by supporters of him. But since there is nothing that shows this is a real possibility, other than the support of the people in his home town(lot o' good that did him) , i still stand by an objective truth that human life is sacred and no one shoul dbe removed from that right. Its such a sticky situation though.

And when i said that Bush should be setting an example for the rest of the world, this means that in spite of the fact that the US isnt likely to hold the trial, being that we are a major influential power, we should not pripose to condemn him to death.

(perhaps my last 2 cents)