President Bush Says He's A Christian Man

[CICCIO]

The president of the United States of America claims that he is a Christian man. But today he has said that Saddam diserves to die by death penalty. I wonder if he knows what Jesus tought about an eye for an eye.

In Matt 5: 38-42, Jesus says "You ahve heard the commandment, 'An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.' But what I say to you is: offer no resistance to injury. When a perosn strikes you on the right cheek, turn and offer him the other. If anyone wants to to go to law oer your shirt, hand him our coat as well. Should anyone press you into sevice for one ile, go with im two miles. Give to the man who begs from you. Do not tur your back on the borrower."

In Matt 5: 43-38, Jesus says, " You have heard the commandment, 'You shall love your countrymen but hate your enemy.' My command to you is: love your enemies, pray for your persecutors. This will prove tht ou are sons of your heavenly Father, for his sus rises on the bad and the good, he rains on the just and the unjust. If you love those who love you, what merit is there in that? Do not tax collectors do as much? And if you reet your brothers only, what is so prasworthy about that? Do not pehans do as much? In a word, you must be made perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

And, In Matt 5: 21-26 he said, "You have heard the commandment imposed on your forefathers, 'You shall not commit murder; every murderer shall be liable to judgment.' What I say to you is: everyone who grows angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; any man who uses abusive language toward his brother shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and if he holds him in contempt he risks the fires of Gahenna. If you bring your gift to the altar and ther recall that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift and the altar, go first to e reconciled with your brother, and the come and offer your gift. Lose no time; settle with your opponent while on you way to court with im. Otherwise your opponent may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to the guard, will throw you into prison. i warn you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny."

Ok. so what am I gettin at with these quotes. Frankly:

- Saddam should not be put to death. It is not our right to take a human life. Thats Gods job. There is no way that i can think of that Saddam could pay 'the last penny,' so there's nothing to fear from him as far as rising up to power again.

- He should be jailed. Remember that the purpose of jailing someone is not merely to imprison them, but rather to rehabilitate them. One might argue that Saddams actions are irreconcilable, and that there's no way to turn a man like him around. Perhaps this is true but he still has as much a right to life and human dignity as any other human being does.

- I dont want to bash Bush or anything, but it doesnt make sense to me to care human life before birth but not after any more than it makes sense to take life before birth and protect it after.

- Because American is a superpower, our influence reaches the world-wide. Reccomending the death penalty for Saddam, such a heated case, could only set a bad example for the world views about respect for life.

- Lastly, i dont have the patience to keep rambling such as i have any longer, but i hold the rest of my views are implicated by the quotes.

Anyone feel similarly? Lemme know. Maybe there's a way to reach the president and do something about this. I know Saddam is a shady character, c'mon, he's freakin' Saddam Hussein! ut he's still human and he desirves the same compassion your grandma does.

Peace ya'll :thumb:

[FX2]

i think saddam should be tried first by the international courts. If Saddam helps us out in finding other terrorists, wmds, etc then we might be able to let him have a plea bargin and life in prison. But then after the international courts, we should send him to Iraq so he may be tried by his fellow Iraqis. Whatever his fate is, should be up to them.

thats just my two pennies. I am tottally against killing Saddam if he helps us out. But then we should turn him over to the Iraqis.

[Ash Wednesday]

Many Christians, particularly fundamentalist ones, support the death penalty. I have a Baptist friend that is the same way.

I think in the end, the Iraqis will be the ones trying him. If this is the case, I suspect they will sentance him to death.

I've never been entirely sure what the Church teaches on the death penalty -- it's my understanding that generally it is opposed except in really extreme circumstances. Of course determining that would be a really hard decision to make. I'm glad I'm not the one making it...

:ph34r:

[CICCIO]

I believe the Pope said that the death penalty is strictly forbiddeion except in extreme cases in which it would be the only way to protect society, but i don't think even he thought of a situation in which that could apply

[the_rev]

Did you ever read the book of Mice and Men, Good book, to many swear words though!

Anyways, SAdamm should not die, and what a coincidence, that eye for an eye verse was in our bible study yesterday for my yahoo group, not to late to sign up!!!!!!!! Sadamm's life was evil, but we would be evil to take it to. Two wrongs don't make a right!

[FX2]

you know if you were an Iraqi whos family Saddam tourtured and killed and then put their heads right infront of your house, then wouldnt it be pretty hard not to say you want the death penalty for him. I know it would be hard for me.

[Mary's Knight, La]

the way i understand the church's position is the death penalty is acceptable if it is the LAST AND ONLY way for a nation to defend itself from the evil inflicted by the individual however, most priests will say it's never necessary anymore with life imprisonment. but then that raises the question of is the nation being a good steward with it's tax money by spending more per prisoner than the average per capita income of citizens outside of prison... it's a very sticky situation that's why i leave it to smarter minds than mine

[CICCIO]

I know that the pain of experiencing such a tragic life as those in Iraq, but knowing what i know about what jesus and the church teaches about respect for life and human dignity, i could not with a clear concience desire Saddams death. I know the pain of having my life violated by a someon who doesnt seem to respect life, so i know how hard it is to first make the decision to forgive, and then actualy do it. But i garantee you get closure, or alteast to a tollerabe degree if not complete, once you do fogive.

Edited December 16, 2003 by CICCIO

[Dave]

Let's not judge the President, OK? He's not Catholic, so of course he doesn't have the benefit of an infallible magisterium to guide him. But unlike Bill Clinton, he doesn't have the morals of an alley cat!

[chox]

if what would happen to him death/long prison sentence was up to the Iraquis then they would probablly kill him if he hasnt already been assasinated before his trial

[frozencell]

The Old Testament is generally considered "revised" by the NT in things such as retribution or sacrifices and things. I think he deserves to rot slowly for his crimes, not merciful death. Make him suffer before he burns in hell.

[CICCIO]

inDouche Bush is not a Catholic, but i'd say that the Church gets its teachongs on the death penalty from the bible. Therefore it does not make sense to me that any protestant would be ok with the death penalty. And no, we should not judge the current president or any of the others, only their actions. If i had to add it up, I'd say it seems Bush's religious views are partialy politicaly motivated, not to insult him or anything

[hyperdulia again]

dave, some people (ok me) might say this war was more immoral than what mr. clinton got up to.

but in any event i don't think any human soul is ours to pass judgement on.

the church says that the death penalty can be used to protect society from an individual, i think the execution of pres. hussein might meet that standard, but i'm not a theologian so i don't know. eithher way we should be praying for sadam AND for pres. bush.

[JP2Iloveyou]

I voted no. I don't believe Saddam should be executed, for one thing because he is much more valuable to us alive. I want him to pay for his crimes against humanity though, for one thing because punishment may make him repent and clean up his soul before he meets God. I definitely want the harshest punishment morally possible and justified for him.for him.

[jrndveritatis]

The death penalty cannot be used except when it is necessary to protect society. Well, if there is any case where it is necessary this is it. Letting Saddam live would encourage terrorists, and who is to say that they would not take a school hostage and threaten to blow it up unless we let him go. We know that this is feasible. Just look at what is happening in Palestine with all of the homicide bombers. With Saddam alive, the Iraqi resistance will have more to fight for and will continue to kill our troops and innocent Iraqis.

Anyways, since the Pope did not set out when explicitly the death penalty is allowed, this is a prudential judgment of those deciding the case. So, just like the war, according to Catholic teaching, was a prudential judgment of President Bush, whether or not to execute Saddam is a prudential judgment of those trying him, the United States and the Iraqi Governing Council.

Personally, I believe that this is one of the few cases where the death penalty is necessary, but like I said that is up to the prudential judgment of those trying the case, going on the guidelines established by the Pope that the death penalty is just only when it is necessary to protect society.