was I a Christian?

[photosynthesis]

OK, I am still having a bit of an identity crisis. I don't imagine i will ever have this resolved, but I am trying to figure this out.

OK, so when I was a baby, my parents had me baptized in the Church. Everything was legitimate, even though they did it just to make my grandma happy.

I had a barely-Catholic upbringing. My family did the bare minimum for raising me in the Church. We went to Mass sometimes, and I went through CCD, even though I never knew what Holy Communion was or why all this was so important. The Church I was "brought up" in didn't even have us receive first Reconciliation before First Communion. They reversed it, because they didn't think 2nd graders were capable of examining their consciences.

I was confirmed, but again, I had no idea what it meant. Apparently I received the Holy Spirit, but I only proceeded to fall away from the Faith even more.

I honestly believe that I didn't know Jesus until I came to college. Before that, it seems like we were complete strangers. If I was a Christian at baptism and a Catholic just like everyone else, that would mean that I was some how in a relationship at God. but I never talked to God because I didn't think that was something people could do.... you had to be special to pray.

I start to wonder, was I ever really in the Faith to begin with? Was I ever Christian? I know I was baptized and received the Sacraments, but it is difficult for me to have seen myself as Christian because I never had a relationship with Jesus Christ, I didn't know God was MY Father, and I thought the Holy Spirit was some bird-thing with fire coming out of it. How can a person be a Christian but be completely ignorant about Christ? I struggle with this a lot... if I wasn't Christian, what was I?

Sometimes I think God ran out of legitimate lives when he made me so he gave me the demo one.

[King's Rook's Pawn]

You're story is almost exactely like mine. I always thought of myself as a Christian and a Catholic, but it's taken me a long time to understand what it was all about and I still don't think I'm there yet. But does it really matter what happened in the past, if you're sure of where you are now? It seems to me like it really wouldn't matter what you thought about it as a kid, as long as you recieved sacraments validly, which you suggest you did.

[Aloysius]

on a metaphysical and substantial level, you were a Christian. your soul was brought out of original sin by Christ's sacrifice, you died with Him in the waters of baptism and rose to new life.

Just because you don't know or don't practice that, doesn't mean your soul is not affected by it. The soul is not just the psyche, the reason, the consciousness; the soul is the anima, the life-giving animating force, and if its damaged state was restored then your soul was a Christian soul.

you can have trouble with your reasoning out of the faith, with your knowledge or experience of it-- but your soul is a Christian soul. In your soul, whether you sense it or not whether you know it or not, has dwelt the Blessed Trinity from the moment of your baptism.

So you're in a stage of bringing it into fruition, starting to know and understand what was always a reality about your nature-- that it was a redeemed nature-- that's good. Because when we know such things then we can actively will to participate in them, we know that there is a redeemed soul so now we can cultivate it so that it is more competent as a channel of grace, we can take on with reason the faith that was sewn onto the very nature of our animating life force.

Your Christianity was not dependent upon you. It was dependent upon your ancestry of good souls in heaven praying for you and good souls like your grandfather on earth making sure you got baptized. It was dependent on the grace of the sacraments that might have slipped right past your perception but still deeply connected themselves to your nature. Of course when you reach the age where you become conscious of it, you must apply your conscious will to cultivate it-- but it was always there.

That's a hard thing I suppose-- admitting that you don't know yourself as well as you'd like to think you do. God knows you better. Think about it, for so long there was a whole part of your soul that existed, that was in essence you, that you were completely unaware of... but it was completely redeemed and completely Christian...

[photosynthesis]

that is an interesting way of looking at it... I like your perspective.

How can a person's soul be redeemed, though, if they have thrown away the grace given to them in Baptism by sinning? I mean, I was into a lot of bad stuff... I was anti catholic, pro choice, etc. I may not have known what sanctifying grace was, or knew what baptism actually meant, but I certainly wasn't living the call to holiness all Christians have.

can a person be redeemed and in need of redemption at the same time?

[shortnun]

Photo.... and Al's great response..... you've given me so much to think about. I'm currently taking a Christian Initiation class. We're tracing the history and development of baptism and confirmation. So hearing your story, Photo, really helped me think about what the long-term theological implications are of infant baptism (which is often times followed by highly deficient catechetical formation). And Al, your response hit the nail on the head. How beautiful it is for us to think about the grace--the Holy Spirit--conferred on us at the moment of our baptism.

Photo, in response to your latest question, I think all human beings (who are flawed by our nature) are in need of redemption. And when we enter into something (ie, through baptism)--into the mystical body of Christ--we are constantly being redeemed. The emphasis here being that redemption isn't so much a specific point in time as it is an ongoing change in our way of life. (Sometimes, as you mentioned in your own experience, that change takes a while.)

Peace and God Bless.

[Church Punk]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 15 2006, 02:23 AM']that is an interesting way of looking at it...  I like your perspective.

How can a person's soul be redeemed, though, if they have thrown away the grace given to them in Baptism by sinning?  I mean, I was into a lot of bad stuff...  I was anti catholic, pro choice, etc.  I may not have known what sanctifying grace was, or knew what baptism actually meant, but I certainly wasn't living the call to holiness all Christians have.

can a person be redeemed and in need of redemption at the same time?
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I think this sums it up:

[quote name='Luke 15: 11-32 - The Prodigal Son']10  So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.
11 ¶ And he said: A certain man had two sons.
12  And the younger of them said to his father: Father, give me the portion of substance that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his substance.
13  And not many days after, the younger son, gathering all together, went abroad into a far country: and there wasted his substance, living riotously.
14  And after he had spent all, there came a mighty famine in that country: and he began to be in want.
15  And he went and cleaved to one of the citizens of that country. And he sent him into his farm to feed swine.
16  And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17  And returning to himself, he said: How many hired servants in my father's house abound with bread, and I here perish with hunger!
18  I will arise and will go to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee.
19  I am not worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20  And rising up, he came to his father. And when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him and was moved with compassion and running to him fell upon his neck and kissed him.
21  And the son said to him: Father: I have sinned against heaven and before thee I am not now worthy to be called thy son.
22  And the father said to his servants: Bring forth quickly the first robe and put it on him: and put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet.
23  And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it: and let us eat and make merry:
24  Because this my son was dead and is come to life again, was lost and is found. And they began to be merry.
25  Now his elder son was in the field and when he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26  And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27  And he said to him: Thy brother is come and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe.
28  And he was angry and would not go in. His father therefore coming out began to entreat him.
29  And he answering, said to his father: Behold, for so many years do I serve thee and I have never transgressed thy commandment: and yet thou hast never given me a kid to make merry with my friends.
30  But as soon as this thy son is come, who hath devoured his substance with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31  But he said to him: Son, thou art always with me; and all I have is thine.
32  But it was fit that we should make merry and be glad: for this thy brother was dead and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found.
(DRV)[/quote]

[Church Punk]

The Father never gives up on us, but awaits for us to return to him. If we completely turn our backs on Him, we have made a choice and denied the saving redemption of the Father. It is through our acknowledgment of our sinfulness which enables us to accept the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

[avemaria40]

Yes, because we are not saved by faith alone, we're saved by grace alone. You were born again at baptism, and from then on, you were counted as a part of God's family,even if u didn't feel like u knew him.

[photosynthesis]

but what if the will is not cooperating with God's grace?

[avemaria40]

We all fall, that doesn't mean u weren't a Christian.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 15 2006, 01:15 AM'] The Church I was "brought up" in didn't even have us receive first Reconciliation before First Communion.  They reversed it, because they didn't think 2nd graders were capable of examining their consciences.
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I never encountered that in my life, but I learned in catechetics classes here that it actually happens quite often...it's a major abuse on a huge scale.

[avemaria40]

yeah, i don't understand that. You need to go to Confession first so that you get in the habit of confessing sins so that if you commit a mortal sin, you know you have to go to Confession before receiving the Eucharist.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 15 2006, 10:57 AM']yeah, i don't understand that.  You need to go to Confession first so that you get in the habit of confessing sins so that if you commit a mortal sin, you know you have to go to Confession before receiving the Eucharist.
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Yeah, my professor, who has lots of children, said, "a lot of priests figure that a 6 or 7 year old can't sin...but priests must not know much about 6 and 7-year-olds!"

[avemaria40]

And if ppl think 7-year-olds can't understand sin, wouldn't it be logical to assume that they can't understand what the Holy Eucharist is and means?

Trust me, i know a lot of little kids, and, sweet as they are, they certainly can sin.

[kateri05]

yea, the people who run those phishy programs need to meet my 6 year old cousin Ian. :

he may be cute and sweet but he can get this devilish glint in his eye right before he kicks you in the leg.