Taking A Man's Name at Marriage

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:38 PM']What's your issue other than that these things are different for men and women (as are many things).
Why don't men get pregnant?
Why don't men wear dresses?

If you actually know a man in any way, you'll probably learn his marital status, so it's not like a man's marital status stays a "mystery."

If your complaint is that it easier for a man to lie about his marital status - this again should not be something for a Christian woman to be envious of!  And women can find ways to hide their status and lie too if they're interested in adultery.  Being a "Mrs." hasn't stopped plenty of adulteresses!

I'm not a woman, but having a "Mrs." a "Miss" title hardly seems like a huge invasion of one's privacy.  And I don't think most women would really have a good reason for keeping their marital status a "mystery."
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Yeah, things are different for men and women, but why can't some things be the same? I perfectly understand why men don't get pregnant or wear dresses, and I'm not saying it's easier for a man to lie. I know that you'll learn a man's marital status if you know him in any way. I just don't understand why women have different titles according to marital status and men don't. Trust me, I know the diffrences between men and women go way beyond physically, it's mentally, emotionally and spiritually as well. But we haven't always gone by Mr. and Mrs. and Miss and I just think if a woman would rather go by Ms. ,i don't see a problem with that. And I don''t see a problem with keeping ur maiden name after marriage either

[Christ Zewe]

Eh...I'm not going to pretend that I read 6 pages of this nonsense, because no progress seems to have been made from the beginning to where it's at now. But I will hit one thing...

[quote]well, the two do become one, which i think is the idea about taking your husband's name. i think, not on any deep theological level of course, but that its best if they do have the same name.[/quote]

Eh...then why shouldn't the man change his last name to that of his wife?

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 17 2006, 07:38 PM']I'm not a woman, but having a "Mrs." a "Miss" title hardly seems like a huge invasion of one's privacy.  And I don't think most women would really have a good reason for keeping their marital status a "mystery."
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I can vouch that there are plenty of situations in which a woman may not want to reveal her marital status. Most of the ones I can think of are in the working world.

When I was interviewing many moons ago I left my engagement/wedding ring off.

Why?

1) None of their business!

2) Some people (subconsciously or consciously) think, "oh, she's engaged/married, she'll be busy wedding planning, having kids, etc and won't have her head in the game or will need maternity leave." I know it's illegal to discriminate in hiring, but it happens.

3) If people see my ring, they may think (wrongly!) that they don't need to pay me a higher salary because, a) we're a two income family, or b) if I have such a nice ring we must be ok financially. I actually had a woman say to me once that I didn't need to worry too much about what the offer would be because my hubband would be working too! Ummm, excuse me? I should be paid a just wage based on my capabilities! No one would ever suggest to a man that his wage is ok at a particular level because his wife has a job too!

4) When I was doing PhD interviews I didn't want the depts to think I didn't need funding!

5) A friend who interviewed at the woman's college where I attended was asked how she thought her upcoming marriage would affect her ability to perform her job...ummmm, hello?! ILLEGAL! She was dumfounded. (Note: I am sure becuase they knew her they didn't think anything about asking the question, but still! )

On a side note...At my last job when I knew I was leaving, but they didn't, one of the women on my team (of all women) called a meeting to announce she was pregnant. The boss goes "no one else get pregnant!" LOL, I wanted to crawl under the table. She remarked later when she found out that I was leaving that I must have died at that remark! I had!

Others have different experiences that will paint different pictures and that's great for them. But, those were my experiences. By law the interviewer can't ask if you're married, so why give any hints?!

[avemaria40]

Amen to that

[cmotherofpirl]

Private lives should be just that

[avemaria40]

Exactly

[Deeds]

[quote]Basically because the wife takes the husband's name, not the other way around (though I know you seem to be opposed to that whole idea).

What title would you prefer for women (presuming every married woman does not have a doctorate degree)?

Why do you act like a woman's marital status is something to be ashamed of?

It seems like this is just about demanding that men and women be exactly the same, rather than a logical position.[/quote]
I'm opposed to the wife taking the husband's name? You'll have to point out where I said that.

It would probably be too confusing to change the system of titles, but I'm not out to do that, I voiced an opinion on the title I would prefer to take and got jumped on.

Paragraph three just warrants a .

How is it at all logical that men keep one title all their life but a woman's changes when she marries? The women above me have given excellent reasons why it's not always a good thing for marital status to be totally transparent.

[franciscanheart]

Private lives [i]should[/i] be private but I think there comes a point where we cross from the want for privacy to an abundance of pride.

[Socrates]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 18 2006, 08:00 AM']Yeah, things are different for men and women, but why can't some things be the same?  I perfectly understand why men don't get pregnant or wear dresses, and I'm not saying it's easier for a man to lie.  I know that you'll learn a man's marital status if you know him in any way.  I just don't understand why women have different titles according to marital status and men don't.  Trust me, I know the diffrences between men and women go way beyond physically, it's mentally, emotionally and spiritually as well.  But we haven't always gone by Mr. and Mrs. and Miss and I just think if a woman would rather go by Ms. ,i don't see a problem with that.  And I don''t see a problem with keeping ur maiden name after marriage either
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[quote name='Deeds' date='Feb 18 2006, 04:34 PM']How is it at all logical that men keep one title all their life but a woman's changes when she marries? The women above me have given excellent reasons why it's not always a good thing for marital status to be totally transparent.
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I understand that there are specific circumstances in which revealing
one's marital status may not be prudent. However, I wouldn't use those to argue against ever using "Mrs." or taking one's husband's last name.
The original topic was about the woman taking the man's family name, and the "Mrs." title is part of that.

Basically, the reason is that in our Western culture, traditionally the wife joins the husband's family, rather than vice-versa. We are a patri-lineal, rather than matri-lineal society.
Yes, I know many will argue that this is outdated, anachronistic, patriarchal, sexist, etc.
However, I see no reason to change this just so that men and women can be completely "equal" (or rather, the same.)
I prefer to keep our cultural tradition, rather than uproot it in the name of radical egalitarianism or feminism.

Not everything has to be perfectly "logical" - we are human beings, not androids.

Call me a chauvinist pig, but I think the wife taking her husband's name is a beautiful tradition, not some tool of oppression, and I would not wish to marry a woman who refused to do so simply on the basis of "equality" or keeping things the same for both sexes.

[Azriel]

I took my husband's name so that I would always be able to tell if the person on the other end of the phone knew me.

Its virtually impossible to pronounce.

My Grandmother always said the same thing. Her maiden name was VanHoogstraten.

[photosynthesis]

what about the Biblical notion of a man leaving his father and mother and cleaving to the wife?

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Feb 18 2006, 07:37 PM']I took my husband's name so that  I would always be able to tell if the person on the other end of the phone knew me.

Its virtually impossible to pronounce.
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LOL, I've been known to say, "You must have the wrong number there's no one here by THAT name!" On the other hand, I've been known to talk to a telemarketer precisely BECAUSE he was able to correctly pronounce both my first AND last names!

Still didn't buy anything though....