HomeTeamFamily Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ok so im having this discussion with someone about abortion (she is non-religious)....she swears up and down to the whole "at a certain point early enough in the process the baby is not 'living'" im not really sure how to respond to this claim accurately and from a "i want you to have the Truth" point of view so anything yall could give me would be sweet thanks peace and God bless adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 hmmmm one way you could do it is ask her to point out at which point the baby isn't living and why that particular point is the line then once you can prove that the criterion she used may indicate the presence of life but doesn't indicate the start of life you can point out that if she was wrong about where life starts why can't it start at conception. be prepared though for her to just change her criterion. e.g. we know the ceasing of heartbeat without intervention causes death so a heartbeat indicates life is present happens within 2 or 3 weeks (or at least that's when it's detectable) maybe some phatmass mothers can help pin it down to a more definite time or if it's when it can survive on it's own in a proper environment well the newly conceived child will do just fine normally as long as it's in an environment where it can cling to the walls so maybe that'll help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Just be logical. A living sperm meets a living egg and conception occurs. THis is now a genetically unique human being with a soul given by God. Its a baby. It hasn't yet grown arms or legs yet, but its still a baby. It you plant an oak tree and it sprouts up its first leaf, its still an oak tree, not a maple. You don't have to wait until its mature to call it an oak tree. It starts out a living oak tree and stays that way until its a dead oak tree. At no point does it change from one thing into another. Its alive, not dead. egg+ sperm = baby It takes two living things to make another living thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 cmom, you should add your kitten example that you used with Carrie about abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 cmom, you should add your kitten example that you used with Carrie about abortion. I don't remember it, do you? :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 umm, no, but I'll search. *runs off* I'll be back! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 okay, phew, I'm back. *deep breath* okay, sorry, cmom, it was Anna in the "I'm Angry" thread started by Carrie. Anna, Nov 19, 2003 9:29AM You know, it's always very interesting to turn the argument around and discuss the baby as if it was a kitten or a puppy. I mean it! Really, ask if a mother cat was giving birth, and one of the feline fetuses head popped out, would it be ok to crush the skull and remove the brains...as long as the rest of the kitten's body hadn't emerged from its mother yet? Oh, how sick! How gross! Who could do such a thing to a poor, defenseless little kitten?!!! I'm hoping I didn't make you think you were losing your mind or anything! For some reason sometimes I get yours and Anna's posts mixed up. :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 THank you thank you I couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 When discussing abortion many people forget where the BURDEN OF PROOF lies. It is up to your friend to prove that an embryo is not alive, not for you to prove that it is. SCIENCE proves that it is alive. It's a no-brainer. EVERY scientist will say that the conceptus is a)alive and b) a human being. Back to burden of proof. If you DON'T KNOW whether something is alive, a human, a person etc. do you have the right to destroy it? You must PROVE that the embryo is not a person before claiming that right. Two men are on a hunting trip. They separate to increase their odds. A bush in front of one man rustles. Should he fire into the bush? NO! If he doesn't and an animal escapes... no real loss. If he DOES and he kills his friend, he's going to jail for manslaghter. The burden of proof is on your friend. SHE must prove beyond doubt that abortion is not killing a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSorrows Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 we know the cells are living, once they come together and the cells reproduce a zygote is made, and all the dna for a human is there, so it will always be a human, it will never form into a pig or cat. If your friend wants to say that those 2 cells aren't human, then she will have a hard time defining what a human is. Does she say it is human when it looks human?? cause I know some people that are butt ugly or deformed or pardon me (look like monkeys), but that does not mean that they are not human and we can kill them. Or does she say that we must be able to live outside the womb??? this is no good either because many babies or people cannot live outside the womb and must be hooked to machines to live. Many of these people would die, but because of machines, live a normal live (like a pace maker). Or does she say that you have to be smart enough to be human...cause I know alot of people that are dumb, does that mean we can kill them? I know alot of dogs that are smarter than people (kidding aside). Some countries have adopted infanticide, killing infants under 2 years old, because they say they are not really human because they cannot think and do not know what is going on, so it is ok to kill them. any arguement your friend makes, you can refute and always pray to God before talking to her, oh and our beautiful mother of sorrows. www.sevensorrows.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 thanks yall for the help....now i just have to have the opportunity to discuss this with her again!!! peace and God bless adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Don't fall for the "has a potential for human life" argument. That statement implies that if it has the potential for human life, then it also has the potential for non-human life, like a dog or a cow or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 woh......don't mean to change the subject........but ur avatar is scary, matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 (edited) Lanky, as Lil Red mentioned before, I got alot of advice about how to explain abortion to a co-worker in the "I'm Angry" Thread. I'll go search for it and when I find it, I'll post a link here, so you can read through it. Here it is: I'm Angry Edited December 24, 2003 by Carrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Priests for LIFE I encourage you to check this site out, print stuff out and read some great arguments, writings, articles and testimonies. It is very informative and has been so helpful to me in the past. Peace and God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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