Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Does it bug anyone else when someone uses the word "Reconciliation" instead of "Confession" or "Penance"? What do you all think of the word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) "Confession" and "penance" only refer to one aspect of the Sacrament. They're fine to use, but they are limited. It would be like calling the Holy Eucharist "The Sacrament of the consecration of wine". Yes, wine is consecrated, but so is bread. "Reconciliation" refers to the sum total of the Sacrament, just as the word "Eucharist" refers to the sum total of what the Mass is (that is, Eucharistia, "thanksgiving"). Edited February 13, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]"Reconciliation" refers to the sum total of the Sacrament, just as the word "Eucharist" refers to the sum total of what the Mass is (that is, Eucharistia, "thanksgiving").[/quote] the word "Reconciliation" was never used until AFTER Vatican II when it was introduced to make the Sacrament touchy feel-goody. I positively hate the word, and will correct someone when they use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 08:24 PM']the word "Reconciliation" was never used until AFTER Vatican II when it was introduced to make the Sacrament touchy feel-goody. I positively hate the word, and will correct someone when they use it. [right][snapback]885060[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Not quite. St. Paul writes in 2Corinthians 5: [quote]And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us [b]the ministry of reconciliation[/b], namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us [b]the message of reconciliation[/b]. [/quote] It is a biblical word. As for whether or not its popular usage preceded the Council, this is irrelevant. The Church is not stagnant. The early Church did not speak with a Thomistic terminology, either. Show me one reference to "Transubstantiation" in the early Church. This, too, was once a novelty in language. Furthermore, you are out of line to "correct" people. The Church accepts the phrase, as John Paul II makes clear in his Apostolic Exhortation "Reconciliatio et Penitentiae": [quote]The means are those of faithful and loving attention to God's word; personal and community prayer; and in particular the sacraments, true signs and instruments of reconciliation, among which there excels, precisely under this aspect, the one which we are rightly accustomed to call the sacrament of reconciliation or penance and to which we shall return later on. [/quote] Edited February 13, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 08:24 PM']the word "Reconciliation" was never used until AFTER Vatican II when it was introduced to make the Sacrament touchy feel-goody. I positively hate the word, and will correct someone when they use it. [right][snapback]885060[/snapback][/right] [/quote] what, are we supposed to feel horrible after we have received the mercy of God and had our sins washed away? I like the term "Sacrament of Reconciliation" because, like Era MIght said, it is more descriptive. However, I don't like the term "Reconcilliation Room." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]St. Paul writes in 2Corinthians 5:[/quote] I'm talking about its use when referring to the Sacrament of Confession, not reconciliation with a little "r". [quote]Furthermore, you are out of line to "correct" people. The Church accepts the phrase, as John Paul II makes clear in his Apostolic Exhortation "Reconciliatio et Penitentiae":[/quote] If you havent noticed, I am one of those people who are called "Traditional Catholics" who by some are called "schismatic wierdos that go against what the pope says". So, I guess, um, that I am stuck in the past and am too caught up in the "Spirit of Vatican I" to care about the "Spirit of Vatican II" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 If you read the Catholic Encyclopedia, I think it employs the word "reconciliation" about 20-30 times. The Sacrament may (May) not have had that name before, but the change of name implies what is supposed to follow Confession. [quote]There is the further consideration that the bishop did not necessarily hear the confessions of those whom he absolved at the [b]time of reconciliation,[/b] and moreover the ancient formularies prescribe that at this time a priest shall hear the confession, and that the bishop, after that, shall pronounce absolution.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 08:38 PM']I'm talking about its use when referring to the Sacrament of Confession, not reconciliation with a little "r". If you havent noticed, I am one of those people who are called "Traditional Catholics" who by some are called "schismatic wierdos that go against what the pope says". So, I guess, um, that I am stuck in the past and am too caught up in the "Spirit of Vatican I" to care about the "Spirit of Vatican II" [right][snapback]885078[/snapback][/right] [/quote] St. Paul is referring to the Sacrament of Penance. It is his "ministry of reconciliation" as a Priest. And I would suggest that you receive the Papal magisterium of today with the same deference the Saints received the Papal magisterium in their own day. [quote]This is the legacy that I leave you: that no one ever surpass us in love and obedience, the most ample, the most filial, the meekest, to the Pope and to the Bishops --Saint Luigi (Don) Orione[/quote] Edited February 13, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I don't see a problem calling it Reconciliation, just as I see no problem refering to the Holy Spirit as the Holy Ghost. To me it is unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 StThomasMore, Whomever you get your 'information' from is steering you wrong. Tell them to get behind you and come home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]Whomever you get your 'information' from is steering you wrong. Tell them to get behind you and come home.[/quote] I dont think you have the authority to say that my parents are leading me in wrong paths (not that my parents are supporting my Traditional Catholicism, but is they were) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Umm, I doubt your parents are on fisheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAM Dad Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 08:05 PM']I dont think you have the authority to say that my parents are leading me in wrong paths (not that my parents are supporting my Traditional Catholicism, but is they were) [right][snapback]885123[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not trying to say that anybody in particular is steering you wrong. However, you seem to have what I would consider a misplaced hatred for the Catholic Church. As a Catholic myself, I feel that it is my duty to tell you that whomever is steering you away from Christ's Church is steering you wrong. Take it for what it's worth. God bless you, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]Umm, I doubt your parents are on fisheaters. [/quote] Is there anything that says that I am on fisheaters or that my parents are not on fisheaters? [quote]However, you seem to have what I would consider a misplaced hatred for the Catholic Church.[/quote] I do NOT hate the Catholic Church, I love the Catholic Chuch. [quote]As a Catholic myself, I feel that it is my duty to tell you that whomever is steering you away from Christ's Church is steering you wrong.[/quote] I, too, am a Catholic and feel that something is keeping you away from the whole Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 08:15 PM']Is there anything that says that I am on fisheaters or that my parents are not on fisheaters?[right][snapback]885142[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Me. I'm on there and I'm pretty sure your parents are not. Secondly, I am on there, and your signature at the bottom. Dead giveaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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