drinking

[Church Punk]

I think that going out with your friends for a couple drinks is OK. I typically dont drink very much, or really get really drunk, I usually end up driving the other guys home. I should bring the video camera one night just to see the antics that happen!

I think that consistant a purposefully drinking in order to get drink is very sinful through.

[quote]St. Thomas says to drink to "hilarity"

That's an obvious affect of alcohol, and it's an obvious reason for drinking alcohol.

If you drink it both to enjoy the tast and to enjoy the natural effects of it, in moderation, those are right reasons. And of course both of those reasons ultimately point towards thanking God for it. [/quote]

I like this!

Edited February 13, 2006 by Church Punk

[Socrates]

[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 12 2006, 01:22 AM']if you say getting drunk is bad. that is a BIG difference from saying that getting drunk is a sin!!!
to those who say it is a sin, i ask why. WHY is getting drunk a sin?

it may not be the smart thing to do but that's a far cry from something being sinful.
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It is sinful to willingly do damage to ourselves and to do things which remove the power of reason so that we lose proper control of our actions.

[MichaelFilo]

Nothing wrong with a drink once in a while, unless it's illegal for you. Same with smoking a little weed, unless it's illegal. Reality is, all of these things can hurt you, but so can driving a car, or walking on pavement (do youknow what kind of damage it does to your ankles?).

Anyways, it's not a sin. To find your joy in the bottle is a problem, whether moderate or otherwise. Aquinas makes it clear that the end of drinking is to loosen up, and St. Paul says it's end is to help when someone is sick. I've yet to hear of a Saint who endorsed drinking for pleasure, as that is hedonistic. We may do things for fun, but the bodily pleasures, like getting high, are not exactly appropriate when the end is fun, regardless of the nature of the means.

I plan to have a glass of wine everyday, once it's legal.

God bless,
Mikey

[ReinnieR]

where's jennie?

if she finds this thread she'll put a lampshade on her head again.

micah?

[Lounge Daddy]

i drink to sleep better... but that will end this week

[God the Father]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Feb 16 2006, 07:56 PM']Same with smoking a little weed, unless it's illegal.
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In my country it's illegal to smoke weed at all, considering to smoke it you have to posess for at least a second or two. I guess it's okay in Canada though, and Britain.

[Cam42]

Clearly, drinking is not sinful in and of itself, when done prudently.

HOWEVER, when one drinks to the point where his senses are impeded, then he is treading very close sinning against the virtue of prudence.

I also think that it is a misrepresentation of St. Thomas Aquinas to say that he advocates drinking in such a manner. It is understood that St. Thomas Aquinas was not perfect and that one of his vices was to eat too much, hence his girth. But because he was human and therefore, sinful, does not mean that we can condone or support every statement as a matter of truth. So, to invoke him as a defender of drinking to "hilarity," as being acceptable; is disingenious.

Is that statement at all consistent with Scripture? What does Scripture say about drunkenness?

[quote name='Proverbs 20:1']Wine is a luxurious thing, and drunkenness riotous: whosoever is delighted therewith shell not be wise.[/quote]

[quote name='Ecclesiasticus 31:40']Wine is a luxurious thing, and drunkenness riotous: whosoever is delighted therewith shell not be wise.[/quote]

[quote name='Isaias 5:21-24']Woe to you that rue wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits.  Woe to you that are mighty to drink wine, and stout men at drunkenness.  That justify the wicked for gifts, and take away the justice of the just from him.  Therefore as the tongue of the fire devoureth the stubble, and the heat of the dame consumeth it: so shall their root be as ashes, and their bud shall go up as dust: for they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and have blasphemed the word of the Holy One of Israel.[/quote]

[quote name='Isaias 28:7']But these also have been ignorant through wine, and through drunkenness have erred: the priest and the prophet have been ignorant through drunkenness, they are swallowed up with wine, they have gone astray in drunkenness, they have not known him that seeth, they have been ignorant of judgment.[/quote]

[quote name='Luke 21:31-35']So you also, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is at hand.  Amen, I say to you, this generation shall not pass away, till all things be fulfilled.  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.  And take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly.  For as a snare shall it come upon all that sit upon the face of the whole earth.[/quote]

Notice that it speaks of imprudent drinking as drunkenness. This is the meaning of the word. If by catching a buzz, you mean impeding your senses, then it is imprudent and therefore borders on sinning against the virtue of prudence.

[quote name='CCC #1806']Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; "the prudent man looks where he is going." "Keep sane and sober for your prayers." Prudence is "right reason in action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle. It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.[/quote]
[i]Prov 14:15
1 Pet 4:7
St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,47,2[/i]

One can drink and be prudent, but one cannot have his senses be impeded and still be prudent. This is what Scripture teaches. Let's not mean one thing then say another.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='ReinnieR' date='Feb 16 2006, 09:43 PM']where's jennie?

if she finds this thread she'll put a lampshade on her head again.

micah?
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She's asweep and had to take a nap after Mass.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Feb 11 2006, 03:52 PM']I strongly dislike drinking. One or two beers puts me to sleep.
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Two beers makes me tired... if I keep drinking... one to two beers an hour... I'm good to go and feeling great. I like to mix a lot of different things... things that taste good... White Russians, Jack (or Beam, or Crown) and Coke, or 7up, Buttery Nipple, Butterfingers, Vodka & Cranberry, Alien Secreations, Long Island Ice Teas, etc... The best drinking site on the net... [url="http://www.WebTender.com"]http://www.WebTender.com[/url] <- you can check off what you have and it will tell you what you can make.

Drunk is relative to the person drinking, an amount that might make someone else drunk will not get me drunk and vice versa... The point of being drunk is when one would do something that one wouldn't do if they were sober.

One must know their limits when drinking and pace themselves.

Wine gladdens the heart. Too much wine is foolish.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[MC Just]

I work for Budweiser. Seriously. I deliver the beer. I drink the beer too. lol

[Aloysius]

Cam, you described the line between "hilarity" and "drunkenness"; hilarity does not describe the impeding of the senses, but the affect of enjoyment, happiness, social behavior. it calls to mind the scripture passage "a bit of wine gladdens a man's heart"... that is what is meant by "hilarity", as such I do not believe we need to part from St. Thomas on this issue, he is in complete agreement with the scriptures in this case.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Feb 19 2006, 02:10 PM']I work for Budweiser. Seriously. I deliver the beer. I drink the beer too. lol
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YOU GET TO DRINK AND DRIVE FOR A LIVING?!?!?

AND YOU RAP TOO!!

must be nice to be a celebrity like you

[Didacus]

You do not at the pint of a lisght buzz, lose capacity to think react and make proper deciisions. Thus I would say 'no'. However, its a very strong hint to STOP.

[Amator Veritatis]

I believe, perhaps, that the original question of the thread might have been neglected by many of these responses, which question might better be worded thus: Whether the drinking of alcohol to the point at which it diminishes slightly one's inhibitions (or, if this be not the intent of the question, then one's faculties or one's coordination or whatever the crux of the question be) is an offence or sin again Tolerance? Surely no one equates this state with that of drunkenness nor should it be thought to be equivalent to the state of a completely sober man, as the question indicates a distinction with the term "buzz", perhaps better termed pleasant intoxication or, if not intoxication, then stimulation or over-stimulation. In any event, if the author of the topic might choose one of these alternative questions which best fits her intent, perhaps the discussion might be more fruitful.

[Amator Veritatis]

I might add, as far as I understand the question, that the actions described would best be characterised as imperfection. They are almost certainly not sin--much less mortal sin--for the average man, but, because they are deviations from the natural state of man and often a result of one lacking in virtue, e.g., a man who needs to relax with a drink as a result of the calamities of life rather than being virtuous enough to offer his sufferings to God for the remission of his sins and temporal punishment due to sin, they ought be regarded as imperfections resulting from our fallen nature.