Medjugorje: Another View

[brendan1104]

not the dogma outside the church there is no salvation though...

[Aloysius]

like I said; the only way medjurge is legitimate is if those quotes are not accurate. I've seen nothing except the_rev's personal guarentee that they are innacurate quotes. Therefore, I cannot be sure. All I can say is that if any of that is contained in any of the messages, then they are of satan no matter how much good is being done through them. If those are the true message, then give me a thousand conversion stories and a million miracles from the place and I'll see nothing but "fire called down from heaven" which even the anti-christ can do.

Again, it all rests on whether the message actually says anything along those lines. Is there anywhere we can actually see an authentic version of what the seers are saying?

[dandy777]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread as I was so hurt by some of the posts that I just couldn't go through them.

I have been to Medjugorje and am going again. I'm sorry to say that some of the comments mentioned in here are written by people who haven't been there and it shows.

Medjugorje is a holy place and it draws a lot of people to confession as well. It is not a mass hysteria. I saw many conversions or at least people who repented and cameback to Christ. Even though the apparitions are given a lot of importance, the Blessed Sacrament is always at the centre of all activities.

[Aloysius]

That is and can be all well and good: but when it comes to the question of if the apparitions are real we must look at the content of the messages. IF this is the content of the message, then the content of the message is heresy.

It's not about whether you've gone, or how many people it's helped or hurted or given miracles to or conversions to. It's about whether or not the message is true. Don't let yourself be hurt by such an outlook, it is not a personal attack on any of your experiences with the place. It is an objective observational analysis from the standpoint the Church herself will be examining it. If it turns out that these are real quotes, and that this vision is really proposing that message, then it is not a true vision; but your experiences centered on the Blessed Sacrament and the Rosary will not be any less effifacious-- it's just that you would have to recognize that there was no special supernatural event that took you to that place; or perhaps you can see the irony and laugh at the stupidity of satan who brought you to that place hoping to lead souls into varying degrees of heresy but instead ended up causing your deep interior conversion to an orthodox Catholic God-loving faith that does not expouse the heresies of religious indifferentism he was hoping to fool you with.

Again, if and only if these quotes are an accurate portrayal of the message of medjorge.

[dandy777]

If you want a list of all the messages and reflections of Medugorje, take a look here....

[url="http://www.medjugorje.org/olmpage.htm"]http://www.medjugorje.org/olmpage.htm[/url]

[dandy777]

[quote name='the_rev' date='Feb 11 2006, 02:25 AM']This is not what she said.  Our Lady told Vicka, that Jesus and she love all the children, but those who are Catholic are the ones closest to their hearts for they know the truth.  We had Vicka over for dinner, I to read that statment, but that is not what was said.  Everything you read on the Internet doesn't always implicate the truth.

yours in Christ,

Eddy Lee
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I met Vicka too and those who did will surely know that she is a very devout person filled with the presence of God.

[cmotherofpirl]

Genuine appariations are surrounded by many false claims as to confuse the issue. We will not know until it is over and the church gives a final ruling.
I do know of one I'd consider a miracle: my niece My SIL was told her baby was deformed, missing vital organs, and must be aborted. A sister going to Medjugorje took the sonagram and asked Vicka pray to our Lady asking for a miracle. Joan Vicka was born totally healthy. When she learned to talk she asked about the pretty lady in blue.

My husband attended a Medjugorje conference in Pittsburgh years ago. I didn't know much about it, and wouldn't go. He called me from there and told to to look to the sky. I figured one of the big blimps were going over [ they are stationed 3 miles away]. The SUN was dancing in the sky. I have seen many solar phenomena, but have never seen this before or since.

Our God is a mysterious God.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 11 2006, 11:13 AM'] The SUN was  dancing in the sky. 
[/quote]
Can you give a more detailed description?

[Tink]

[color=#ff0066]I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but here is my view... If this is not from God, it is from His enemy. And if it is from Satan, why in the world would he convert so many from atheism to Catholicism and cause countless people's hearts to be softened and warmed? I have a friend who has been to Medjugorje who was completely skeptical before she arrived. She said that while she and her family were there they kept seeing a light on the top of a hill, and when it finally faded, they went up and saw that it happened to be at the station of the cross where Christ meets His mother, and there was a rose on the top of the hill. My friend is a devout Catholic but believed the apparitions to be a hoax until that event. I know her and trust her with all my heart and I don't think something so obviously beautiful is a work of the devil. [/color]

[Era Might]

[quote]IF this is the content of the message, then the content of the message is heresy.[/quote]

Keep in mind, also, that even a seer of a legitimate apparition can be wrong. This happened, for example, with Melanie of La Salette:

[quote]The Bishop of Grenoble was forced to declare publicly in 1851 that the mission of the shepherd children had ended and that the matter was now in the hands of the Church. He did this to end Melanie's pretensions to further and continuous revelations. The Bishop made it clear that the approval of the Church was only for the original revelation of 1846 and not for any subsequent claims.

After the Council of the Vatican, Melanie publicly contradicted in 1873 its Decree Pastor Aeternus by claiming that Our Lady had confided in her that "Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist". Following this, the Church privately warned her and banned this new message, forbidding Catholics from entertaining or discussing it.

In 1878, she published this prohibited new message of 1873 as her original "Secret" of 1846 with the "Imprimatur" of Bishop Zola of Lecce in Italy in a 33 paragraph work published on the 33rd anniversary of the original apparition, on November 15, 1879, under the title, "Apparition of the Blessed Virgin on the Mountain of La Salette". The Vatican promptly put this on the Index of Prohibited Books.

In 1880 the Bishop of Troyes denounced the Lecce-imprimatured book to the Holy Office, and in turn Cardinal Caterini, Secretary of the Congregation of the Holy Office , publicly wrote back to him, the Bishop of Castellammare and the other members of the hierarchy that "The Holy Office is displeased by the publication of this book. Its express will is that every copy which has been put into circulation be withdrawn, as far as is possible, from the hands of the faithful."

In 1901 Abbe Gilbert Combe published his version of Melanie's latter (1873) prohibited "secret" under the title "The Great Coup and Its Probable Dates", which was anti-Bonaparte and pro-Bourbon. It too was promptly put on the Index.

Again in 1906 another of Combe's publication on this 1873 "secret" titled "The Secret of Melanie and the Actual Crisis" was promptly placed on the Index.

These actions of the Church caused a great deal of confusion in Catholic minds, so that [b]it was compelled to clarify that the original message confided to Maximin and Melanie in 1846 remained approved, and it was only the latter messages, and particularly the 1873 message, contradicting Vatican I, saying "Rome will lose the faith, and become the seat of the Antichrist" that was banned. In October 1912, Albert Lepidi, Master of the Sacred Palace in a public statement in reply to a query by Cardinal Lucon affirmed that the original message of 1846 remained approved[/b].

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Salette"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Salette[/url][/quote]

This is why we must not place too much trust in ANYTHING but public, Divine revelation.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Era Might

[Tink]

[quote name='Myles' date='Feb 10 2006, 05:18 PM']The devil appeared to St Martin of Tours adorned with gold too. As Al says if the messages reported were the message of the so-called visionaries then they are of Satan and not Our Lady. In which case whatever miracles have happened there were the rewards of the Spirit of God for pure faith and nout else.
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I've had a lot of things turn 'gold' ...rosaries made of metal often turn goldish looking if left in certain conditions.
[/color]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Feb 11 2006, 12:38 PM']Can you give a more detailed description?
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When I was at Medjugorje, I had the whole sun dancing thing too. For some folks, it literally dances across the sky. For others, they can look at it and it shoots off lots of different colors.

I was doing a rosary on Apparition Hill. We were halfway through the rosary and one person in our group stopped, turned around and started looking up at the sky. Then ohters in the group started doing it as well. I asked one person what was going on and he told me to blink a couple of times then try to look up at the sun. If I needed to squint, I should turn away immediately.

So I blinked
and I looked up at the sun

In front of the sun was a gray transluscent disc. It covered everything except for streams of sunlight shooting out and "dancing" around it. It was... well... impressive. I was able to stare directly at the sun for over two minutes. My eyes didn't tear up. I didn't have to squint ( no there were no clouds blocking the sun) and most importantly I didn't burn out my retinas. Although 3 out of four doctors who recommend sugarless gum would say that I should be completely blind (and in excrutiating pain) after the first 30 seconds or so.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Feb 11 2006, 01:36 PM']Keep in mind, also, that even a seer of a legitimate apparition can be wrong. This happened, for example, with Melanie of La Salette:
This is why we must not place too much trust in ANYTHING but public, Divine revelation.
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The man of many avatars is correct. But I would also like to point out, that if you read through all of the messages (one a month) posted, each and every one of them only talk about

prayer
fasting
confession
conversion


All the messages are Catholic staples.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='dandy777' date='Feb 11 2006, 03:38 AM'] have been to Medjugorje and am going again. I'm sorry to say that some of the comments mentioned in here are written by people who haven't been there and it shows.
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I was there and am only more skeptical after the trip and meeting Ivan.

For anything good that's coming out of Medjugorje, there are several, serious issues that need to be addressed--especially as regards obedience.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 11 2006, 04:53 PM']In front of the sun was a gray transluscent  disc.  It covered everything except for streams of sunlight shooting out and "dancing" around it. 
[/quote]
Sounds like ghost aliens to me.