qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Where in our conversation did US come up? I believe that we were talking about modern society, since that's what you asked. I in no way implied (though I still think it true) that America was our only discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 you cannot reduce this to broad statistics to prove your point, it's fallacious resoning. if x murderer goes on to kill others after being imprisoned lifelong, then we can say x murderer ought to have been executed. there is no such thing as x% of murderers ought to be executed because x% of murderers go on to kill x% of people x% of the time... but that's the line of reasoning you're trying to impose upon it. that's why i like to stay away from "rare if practically non-existant" in actual discussion... because it's so general and ambiguous. it is always case by case that is also why you cannot pull up statistics from the US and statistics from the UK and compare them to decide whether capital punishment stops murderers from killing after imprisonment. People are not numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url] [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:40 PM']you cannot reduce this to broad statistics to prove your point, it's fallacious resoning. if x murderer goes on to kill others after being imprisoned lifelong, then we can say x murderer ought to have been executed. there is no such thing as x% of murderers ought to be executed because x% of murderers go on to kill x% of people x% of the time... but that's the line of reasoning you're trying to impose upon it. that's why i like to stay away from "rare if practically non-existant" in actual discussion... because it's so general and ambiguous. it is always case by case [right][snapback]886191[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I wanted to say this to show that money isn't the only factor in it...that sometimes lives-wise it's more costly than others to keep a person alive. I really don't want to use statistics...but I did kinda want to show that, too, is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:41 PM']Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url] [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url] [right][snapback]886193[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think he was trying to, as I argued against, say that if this still happens in a country with the death penalty then the death penalty doesn't stop murderers from killing after being imprisoned. As I said, it is fallacious reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:41 PM']Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url] [url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url] [right][snapback]886193[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Zach if you're going to throw out random articles, you're wasting my time. The first article doesn't mention who the prisoners were that started the riot only who was killed by it the second lists two prisoners that were both captured. No one had been hurt. Could you at least read the articles first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) I did. If it can happen, chances is that it will happen. Also, since one person was killed, regardless of who started it, a person died from another inmate...ergo, someone was probably a danger. I only searched for any event in the last two months, and only showed anything that was dangerous. This was for you to read to show that there are such situations which I would deem possibilities, but never to prove my case. They're reflections...[quote]However, if you want to read some on this, you may go to:[/quote] Edited February 13, 2006 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:56 PM']I did. If it can happen, chances is that it will happen. Also, since one person was killed, regardless of who started it, a person died from another inmate...ergo, someone was probably a danger. They're reflections... [right][snapback]886208[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So are you suggesting that all inmates be put to death so that no inmates are killed by other inmates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 no.... that's the problem with your generalizing statistical approach to this. that means that any inmate that ends up killing another person after being sentenced to life in prison, ought to have been executed. these incidents merely show that that can happen in today's society, it can happen that a criminal remains a threat to life even if imprisoned for life. therefore, it CAN be that there is a case in modern society when it was impossible to defend against the criminal. hindsight's 20/20? sure, it can't be known for certain before the guy kills another person in prison which one couldn't be contained. so it's good to know that capital punishment is okay in principle because someone who has committed a grave crime always deserves it and would always justly receive it if it were given to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Wrong Al The reality is that if it can be proven that an inmate can be incarcerated to the point where (s)he is not a danger to innocent people, then we are obliged to do so. That is the case in the US. While they aren't always protected against each other, they can be. And we have the most stringent standards in the world for detention. That is the message from the Church. Again with Supervillians, its a different case altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 13 2006, 04:29 PM']So are you suggesting that all inmates be put to death so that no inmates are killed by other inmates?[right][snapback]886208[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Nope. Solely and specifically stating that it is not always cheaper to keep a person alive over execution. No reason for anymore. It addresses the point made, which needs no further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) [quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:59 PM']it actually costs less to keep a person alive than to execute them [right][snapback]886116[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and [quote name='qfnol31']Nope. Solely and specifically stating that it is not always cheaper to keep a person alive over execution.[/quote] Riiiight. You're telling me conducting an entire prison out of plastics, creating a specialized system to shuttle guards in and out of the place, 24/7 monitoring for ONE MAN is cheaper than killling him? Let alone all the other individuals who have mystic-like powers, such as Dr. Doom. How do you safely imprison someone who is able to transfer psionically his consciousness into another nearby human being with whom he's made eye contact? Whatever you come up with is guaranteed to be astronomically expensive. Arguing that jailing is cheaper than killing them is the height of foolishness! There might be other arguments against the outright slaughter of these criminals, but thus ain't one of 'em, pal. Shiez! Use your brain, people! Edited February 14, 2006 by Cow of Shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Are you arguing or agreeing with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 the world may never know. crunch good tootsie roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I wanna tootsie pop now! Thanx a lot. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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