Ethnocentric Evangelicals and Egomania

[smeagol]

Evangelicals are inherently ethnocentric and antithetical to their supposed cause.

Some male chauvinists compare women to the soil in which their seed must be planted. I think many missionaries view people of other cultures in a similar manner. They are not treated as equals, not as fellow neighbors. Instead they are instead viewed as soil in which to plant a certain idea.

It seems viciously dishonest for people to travel somewhere with the sole mission to convert souls. I know several people who have travelled across the country or globe to gain some sort of glory by helping people. They go to church on Sundays but don't help the homeless people living on the street. Love thy neighbor! If you can't even love the people you're around, how will this journey solve anything? It's a mode of escapism. It's the equivalent of lowering the bar just to feign success. To achieve Truth, you must admit you cannot jump over the bar without help.

This is such blatant hypocrisy, yet it's overlooked by almost everyone. These people are glory-seekers not humble servants of God. The motive behind these actions must be examined before praising their actions. When a friend tells me that she's going to India to feed the poor and preach the gospel, I don't immediately tell her what a great person she is (because her travel money and $30,000 car could help more people--that just wouldn't gain her glory and attention). If you want to travel, go ahead and travel; but don't pretend like it's an act of self-sacrifice for the benefit of others. That's even more despicable that direct animosity. After all, remember that mediocrity is the worst offense.

As a college student, I witness many of my peers seeking solace from the group. The best example of this is the frat guys and sorostitutes who use their clique (as well as alcohol, etc) as a social crutch to gain popularity and become "cool." Likewise, I know many people who go to Campus Crusade for Christ and other such clubs in order to feel better about themselves. Of course, feeling religious is a more noble goal than feeling popular, but both are mere feelings; neither is substantive. The frat guy is nothing without the group, and so is the casual church-goer.

I realize that I have generalized in this post. Of course there are decent people in fraternities and religious groups. However, I wanted to urge you to be skeptical of people when they brag about helping people, because that is inherently contradictory. Would they do the same thing if no one ever knew about it? Do they help people regularly or is this some special accomplishment? Could the unfortunate be aided in some less selfish, less glorious way (like trading in their car for a cheaper one and donating anonymously)?

[Era Might]

Evangelicalism was born in America, so it's no surprise that Evangelical missionaries bring American styles to other lands.

We've had this problem in the past in Catholicism. For example, the Church was very cautious about adopting Asian customs when it evangelized the far East, and this was a real stumbling block.

But, inculturation is an eminently Catholic principle. It's why we have Roman and Byzantine "lungs" of the Church. The push toward inculturation in the local Churches has increased since the Council. It's been good, though not without difficulties and abuses.

[ironmonk]

Smeagol,
It's been a while...

Envy is a deadly sin for a reason. Envy turns a man bitter.

Everyone is a hypocrite at some point... what is worse, the person who knows that they made a mistake and try to change their ways, or the person who does wrong and because they do it, they call it right?

Questoning is good... but look for the answers in books and read them instead of trying to come up with them out of thin air.

Here is a guy that has a phD in philosophy, maybe you can learn something... either believe it or don't.... listen to it to learn or listen to it to rebut it... don't ignore it.

[url="http://www.PeterKreeft.com/audio.htm"]http://www.PeterKreeft.com/audio.htm[/url]

He also has some writings...

[url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0002.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ics/ap0002.html[/url]


Why do you believe that no one can genuinly care for you? Did you do something that you are ashamed of? God forgives. Christ can help you.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Era Might]

[quote]Today, as never before, the Church has the opportunity of bringing the Gospel, by witness and word, to all people and nations. I see the dawning of a new missionary age, which will become a radiant day bearing an abundant harvest, if all Christians, and missionaries and young churches in particular, respond with generosity and holiness to the calls and challenges of our time.

Like the apostles after Christ's Ascension, the Church must gather in the Upper Room "together with Mary, the Mother of Jesus" (Acts 1:14), in order to pray for the Spirit and to gain strength and courage to carry out the missionary mandate. We too, like the apostles, need to be transformed and guided by the Spirit.

--Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Letter "Redemptoris Missio"[/quote]

[smeagol]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 11:38 PM']Envy is a deadly sin for a reason. Envy turns a man bitter.
[/quote]
i dont get it? how does this apply?
[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 11:38 PM']Everyone is a hypocrite at some point... what is worse, the person who knows that they made a mistake and try to change their ways, or the person who does wrong and because they do it, they call it right?
[/quote]
obviously the latter
[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 11:38 PM']Questoning is good... but look for the answers in books and read them instead of trying to come up with them out of thin air.
[/quote]
thanks, i will look into this peter kreeft guy. and i do read a lot.. however i like to THINK a lot too. i'm going to believe in what is the Truth, as far as my mortal self can tell. basically my argument boils down to deontology versus consequentialism. and i think it is obvious that deontology wins. Jesus would agree, in that he said you ought to love and forgive, regardless of the consequences. intent outweighs consequences. i'm just applying this notion to evangelicism.
i'm asking questions: WHY do people travel all the way across the world to help starving African children, yet they don't pay attention to the homeless people in their home cities? THAT is my point. and i wish someone would address it straight up instead of suggesting that i have some deep dark secret sin.
of course i like it when people help me. but someone who helps me just so they can brag about it is completely different from if they helped me just because they knew they should help others. THAT is my point, again. of course helping people is good. but it must come from the heart if it is to have any significant meaning. and this seems blatantly true to me; however it is met with rabid opposition just because it sounds radical. let us not forget that Jesus was radical. this is merely an application of one of his ideas, i think.

i like you monk.. but i wish everyone would ask more questions and learn for themselves and think for themselves. believing something because someone told you so is vastly different from believing because you know it to be True. i am merely on a lifelong journey to do just that.

sorry for the aside. let's see if anyone replies to the original post, eh?

btw, this is one of many posts i keep on my theology blog [url="http://kierk.blogspot.com/"]http://kierk.blogspot.com/[/url] i'm very anxious to hear if anyone has comments concerning the topics i post there. (this means you monk : heheh)

Edited February 8, 2006 by smeagol

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 01:57 AM']i'm asking questions: WHY do people travel all the way across the world to help starving African children, yet they don't pay attention to the homeless people in their home cities?
[/quote]

Because homeless people in America are better off than the starving people in Africa? Because someone needs to help them?

We already have many programs in place to help our homeless.

[smeagol]

if you don't have a home or food, you're bad off no matter where you live! America's economy and human rights doesn't mitigate the suffering of the poor/homeless.

does anybody here question motive?

the same people who organize international journeys don't cough up a quarter when they see homeless people on the streets of their own hometown. THIS is blatantly hypocritical and doesn't deserve praise.

p.s. if they're still homeless these programs you speak of aren't working as well as they could.
p.p.s. there are international organizations that help the suffering abroad. so ought we ignore them too?

[Era Might]

[quote]if you don't have a home or food, you're bad off no matter where you live! America's economy and human rights doesn't mitigate the suffering of the poor/homeless.[/quote]

Not necessarily. You can still have soup kitchens. You can still have shelters. You can still have access to public bathrooms and water fountains and public transportation and libraries and social services. There is none of this in the third world. That's not to say our own poor do not need help. But the third world is incomparable.

[quote]the same people who organize international journeys don't cough up a quarter when they see homeless people on the streets of their own hometown. THIS is blatantly hypocritical and doesn't deserve praise.
[/quote]

And how would you know what people do and do not do when they encounter the homeless? Just because someone doesn't give a person money on the street doesn't mean they are uncaring. I am cautious about doing so myself, because it could easily (and very probably) go to fund drugs, alcohol, lottery, etc. It is as much praiseworthy to drop money in a St. Vincent de Paul poor box as it is to give someone money on the street.

[quote]if they're still homeless these programs you speak of aren't working as well as they could.[/quote]

"The poor you will always have with you", as the Lord himself told us.

The Church is one body, with many members. I can't worry about someone else's vocation. If they are called to go serve with Mother Teresa in the slums of Calcutta, I wish them God's blessing. If I am called to serve the poor in the slums of America, they will hopefully wish me God's blessing, and as Mother Teresa would say, we would both do something beautiful for God.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Era Might

[Era Might]

But there is an element of Truth in what you say. Mother Teresa talked about people who longed to go to Calcutta and serve her, but, maybe they were married and had kids. And she would tell them that they don't need to go around the world to do what Mother Teresa does. That is what some people are called to do. But we have the hustle and bustle and crosses of our daily lives to perfect us in holiness. We can see Jesus in our own town as much as we can in Calcutta.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 02:29 AM']if you don't have a home or food, you're bad off no matter where you live! America's economy and human rights doesn't mitigate the suffering of the poor/homeless.[/quote]
And what I'm saying is that there are at least shelters here where the homeless can get food & a place out of the elements. How many homeless people have you seen in developed countries with bloated bellies & who are forced to eat dirt to stave off starvation? We're talking about people in Africa who don't even have access to clean water.
[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 02:29 AM']does anybody here question motive?[/quote]
Sure, if you're worried about someone's soul as they're helping the poor of the world...here or in America, then you can pry into their motives. As long as they're using their funding wisely, I guess I don't really care why they're doing it. Let God sort out their reasons for helping the less fortunate.
[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 02:29 AM']the same people who organize international journeys don't cough up a quarter when they see homeless people on the streets of their own hometown. THIS is blatantly hypocritical and doesn't deserve praise.
[/quote]
You endorse simply giving money to beggars on the street? Is that how you judge charity? By how much money they give them? Certainly you spit on the gift of time & energy.
[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 02:29 AM']p.s. if they're still homeless these programs you speak of aren't working as well as they could.
p.p.s. there are international organizations that help the suffering abroad. so ought we ignore them too?
[/quote]
"p.s" There will always be the poor, the hungry, the needy. Organizations can help reduce the amount, but we will never be able to eradicate these things. Well, unless you still think Communism works.

"p.p.s" Who do you think makes up those 'international organizations' anyway? lol Someone from the country of International?

Edited February 8, 2006 by Cow of Shame

[Cre8d4Youth]

[quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 01:57 AM'] WHY do people travel all the way across the world to help starving African children, yet they don't pay attention to the homeless people in their home cities? [right][snapback]879941[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Because some persons are called to be missionaries to other people in other lands.

I myself, am not. When I have what little money I can spare, I give to local charities, people in the street, and extra the my church. I do not (usually) send money overseas. It is not my calling. I do have the gift of Compassion, but I also only have the finances of a father of four in a one income family. God encourages me when to give. I would even say He encourages me whom to give to as well.

Am I as bad off as those missionaries you speak so ill of? Because "neighbor" is not meant to be taken quite so literally as the person dwelling in the abode next to mine.

[smeagol]

anyone who read my original post would know that my main point was that actions are not the be-all-end-all of morality. MOTIVE takes precedence over action in regards to morality. Cre8d4Youth, i am sure you give because you know it is your duty to give and not simply so that you can brag about yourself.

now that i think of it, your motive for NOT donating sometimes (because of skim finances) is that you love your family and want to provide for them. this motive is more moral than the person who donates a lot, but does so because he wants to brag about it and appear righteous in his friends' minds.

therefore, actions alone do not determine morality. MOTIVE must enter the fray and be evaluated before lavishing people with praise. in the above example, Cre8d4Youth is to be commended more than the greedy missionary. yet, i feel few people realize this. that's why i posted this.

btw, just because you think someone is already being helped doesnt excuse you from helping as well. this is the whole premise of the phenomenon that you are more likely to be helped when fewer people are around. the good samaritan, etc...

[quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:45 AM']You endorse simply giving money to beggars on the street?  Is that how you judge charity?  By how much money they give them?  Certainly you spit on the gift of time & energy.
[/quote]
clearly you did not digest my initial post, the thesis of which is that charity, morality, righteousness,... ought to be determined based on MOTIVE and motive alone, regardless of what action is taken.

i never thought communism could work, buddy. next time, try to insult my arguments and refute them instead of mocking me for something you made up.

[smeagol]

sorry. double post

Edited February 8, 2006 by smeagol

[Era Might]

[quote]MOTIVE takes precedence over action in regards to morality. [/quote]

In some instances, yes, motive affects a moral act. This is not the case when an act is intrinsically evil (ie, good motives do not render an evil act good.) But, generally, when someone gives their lives in service to Christ, in a foreign mission, for example, we should respect and assume their sincerity.

[quote]To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

---Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2478[/quote]

Edited February 8, 2006 by Era Might

[tojo]

Era your Catechism quote is awesome.... straight into my signature.......