iraq and al queda connection

[Jaime]

I didn't misunderstand, you misspoke. There is a difference

And the reference was from Contact

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 8 2006, 10:12 PM']I didn't misunderstand, you misspoke.  There is a difference

And the reference was from Contact
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[/quote]


Perhaps I did misspeak however that doesnt change the facts that Bush never said the was a direct link between Saddam and 9/11. However there was a link between Al Qaida and Iraq. There is a difference. And WMD's where found in Iraq. Wow really sorry I dont remember much of Contact I kinda went to sleep watching it, but the ending was pretty cool.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.[/quote]
[url="http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/"]http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/[/url]

I think some of that stuff on that website is kinda shady, but this seems at least the one lie that Bush said. In the state of the union and elsewhere.


Here's this also. Enough concern to go war with Iraq, I agree, because of the weopons. But that doesn't excuse lies about the connection with terroritsts... but you be the judge:
[quote]And that is the source of our urgent concern about Saddam Hussein's links to international terrorist groups. Over the years, Iraq has provided safe haven to terrorists such as Abu Nidal, whose terror organization carried out more than ninety terrorist attacks in twenty countries that killed or injured nearly 900 people, including 12 Americans. Iraq has also provided safe haven to Abu Abbas, who was responsible for seizing the Achille Lauro and killing an American passenger. And we know that Iraq is continuing to finance terror, and gives assistance to groups that use terrorism to undermine Middle East peace.

We know that Iraq and the al-Qaida terrorist network share a common enemy -- the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al-Qaida have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al-Qaida leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq.
.........
Some have argued that confronting the threat from Iraq could detract from the war against terror. To the contrary, confronting the threat posed by Iraq is crucial to winning the war on terror. When I spoke to the Congress more than a year ago, I said that those who harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. And he cannot be trusted. The risk is simply too great that he will use them, or provide them to a terror network.
[/quote]
[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/07/national/main524627.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/07/...ain524627.shtml[/url]
From his 2002 speech.


I also remember on Meet the Press the interviewer asking the president something like if Iraq and Al Queda were not connected and we knew that, if the war would still be justified. Bush said only that we made the right decision. She asked a few more times to be persistent and get more of an answer, but that's what all he'd say.



All he had to do was say they knew of connections back in the early ninties. He could have even said even though that's all we know, we have no reason to think he isn't still harboring etc. The way he phrases these things is tantamount to lies.

Edited February 9, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 9 2006, 10:37 AM'][quote]LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.[/quote]

[url="http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/"]http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/[/url]

I think some of that stuff on that website is kinda shady, but this seems at least the one lie that Bush said. In the state of the union and elsewhere.


Here's this also. Enough concern to go war with Iraq, I agree, because of the weopons. But that doesn't excuse lies about the connection with terroritsts... but you be the judge:
[quote]And that is the source of our urgent concern about Saddam Hussein's links to international terrorist groups. Over the years, Iraq has provided safe haven to terrorists such as Abu Nidal, whose terror organization carried out more than ninety terrorist attacks in twenty countries that killed or injured nearly 900 people, including 12 Americans. Iraq has also provided safe haven to Abu Abbas, who was responsible for seizing the Achille Lauro and killing an American passenger. And we know that Iraq is continuing to finance terror, and gives assistance to groups that use terrorism to undermine Middle East peace.

We know that Iraq and the al-Qaida terrorist network share a common enemy -- the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al-Qaida have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al-Qaida leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq.
.........
Some have argued that confronting the threat from Iraq could detract from the war against terror. To the contrary, confronting the threat posed by Iraq is crucial to winning the war on terror. When I spoke to the Congress more than a year ago, I said that those who harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. And he cannot be trusted. The risk is simply too great that he will use them, or provide them to a terror network.[/quote]

[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/07/...ain524627.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/07/...ain524627.shtml[/url]
From his 2002 speech.


I also remember on Meet the Press the interviewer asking the president something like if Iraq and Al Queda were not connected and we knew that, if the war would still be justified. Bush said only that we made the right decision. She asked a few more times to be persistent and get more of an answer, but that's what all he'd say.



All he had to do was say they knew of connections back in the early ninties. He could have even said even though that's all we know, we have no reason to think he isn't still harboring etc. The way he phrases these things is tantamount to lies.
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The so-called fact "found no proof of a continuing relationship"
is a lie, Maybe you didnt read or missed these facts, there proof of a "continuing relationship."

[quote]* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddams hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.

* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddams mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddams men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraqs mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Janes Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Janes reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaedas No. 2 man.

* As recently as 2001, Iraqs embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," Londons Independent reports.

* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Ladens fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddams Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: Youll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Ladens group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq."

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddams son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiris bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.

* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaedas global network.

* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was good," according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.

* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.

* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawis Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawis cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.

*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.

* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaedas military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."

* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddams regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.

* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a Londons Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.

* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 to undertake jihad," Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekars group was funded by "Saddam Husseins regime in Baghdad."

* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islams strongholds inside northern Iraq.
[/quote]

I dont see how you can make Bush a lier just because he didnt play the if game with the Meet the Press interviewer. He told the truth he believe he did the right thing, just because he didnt play the if game doesnt make him a lier.

Perhaps mind you PERHAPS your the lier since you want to throw that word out like candy. Your first post in this phorm was

[quote]I remember pro-war people and the president saying that Iraq and Al-Quieda were directly connected. I post or ask people for proof, but they never give any. Threads go on without much response. Or, people point to how both are terrorists, so in that sense they're related.
Of course that doesn't say how Iraq and Al-Queda got together for 911 as was the words, lies perhaps, being told. Even when someone at least points out how al quieda had communicated in the early ninties, that's very week evidence for what was being conveyed to the public.[/quote]

Bush never said Iraq and Al Qaeda where "directly connected" meaning that Iraq and Al Qaeda did not get together for 9/11. Longstanding strong communication between Al Qaeda and Iraq is not "very weak eviidence".

Lastly you asked for proof of a connection I gave proof and you bushed it aside and did not menition any of it, so I dont think you really wanted any proof now did you.

[dairygirl4u2c]

I am asking for direct relationships that were recent to 911. The evidence I knew of didn't show that.
I should not have asked for direct relationships as in Iraq helped in 911.

I admit I didn't read your first post of that evidence very well.
After this evidence that you provided, I withdraw my stance.

Edited February 10, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[kamiller42]

Bush did draw a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda, but [b]not[/b] to 9/11.

So what is the evidence?

[url="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp"]Saddam's Terror Camps[/url]

[url="http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200410\SPE20041004a.html"]Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties[/url]

[url="http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200410070845.asp"]Can Bush say, “Boogie to Baghdad”?[/url]

[url="http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp"]The U.S. government's secret memo detailing cooperation between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. [/url]

[url="http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200310210934.asp"]Saddam's Terror Ties[/url]

[url="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/167gwjtp.asp"] Two new members of the Iraqi interim government insist that Saddam and al Qaeda were linked.[/url]

[url="http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39025"]Overwhelming evidence of connection[/url]

Happy reading! If you need more sources, I can provide.

[Winchester]

The above was poste on the 10th. Since then, I've seen no responses from anyone in the anti-Bush camp. Why do I put it thus? Because I have never in my life seen a more irrational, arrogant group of nabobs united in hatred of one individual, willing to obfuscate, insult and pander to the opposition.

If the above are all false, then please in the name of truth post the rebuttals. I'd like actual facts instead of the usual "No WMDs were found" That's a statement, not evidence. I know how the media operates--I've seen first hand what they do to truth.


The very least dairy girl could do is acknowledge the response. Looking at her profile, she was active yesterday.

I issue this challenge. I believe I've issued it before: flooping respond! Even if you are not comfortable with the thing contradicting your viewpoint, have the cojones to say it, or the common damned courtesy to say "I'll look into it."

[dairygirl4u2c]

I withdrew my stance. Maybe you need to read closer. What more do you want?
If you want others to admit the evidence isn't in our favor, I would like to see that too.

Also on that note, my willingness to withdraw my stance does a whole lot more than anyone here has ever done that I have seen when it comes to being wrong or at least admitting the evidence doesn't look good in your favor. That goes for both "liberals" and "conservatives", "catholics" and "protestants". Anything I post that rubs against catholics and conservatives are usually ignored. I'm just noting this as these are the people that claim the prots/iiberals do the same thing, which they do, but the caths/cons don't ever admit things either. These people usually like to respond to obviously extermist irrational liberal/protestants instead of the people with rational arguments. My threads often go on responded to, or points in my favor go unacknowledged..
(look at the outside of the cc threads, the pot threads, etc)
And on that note, perhaps you should be willing to admit you did not read very close since I did indeed withdraw my stance.

Edited February 14, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Winchester]

Of course I'm willing to admit it. Done it before and will likely do it again. I misinterpreted the first line of your post and was so taken by said misinterpretation that I launched into my tirade.

I do note that apart from you, I've seen little more from the opposition on this thread, which makes your integrity stand out that much more and make my breach that much much more inexcusable. You have my humblest apologies in this regard.

[dairygirl4u2c]

I realize that Bush and Co. never said that Iraq and 911 were connected, but I think ya gotta read and listen to what is said carefully to realize that. If ya don't, you could very easily fall victim to the 70% of the population who thought there was a tie between Iraw and 911 (though this is true, the public may have been simply making their own deduction, not because of what someone deceived... or reading above statements, someone might argue that government construed them to believe what is wrong, without technically lying)

Edited April 18, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='952345' date='Apr 18 2006, 11:56 AM']
I realize that Bush and Co. never said that Iraq and 911 were connected, but I think ya gotta read and listen to what is said carefully to realize that. If ya don't, you could very easily fall victim to the 70% of the population who thought there was a tie between Iraw and 911 (though this is true, the public may have been simply making their own deduction, not because of what someone deceived... or reading above statements, someone might argue that government construed them to believe what is wrong, without technically lying)
[/quote]

So in other words 70% of Americans are to stupid to understand what Bush really said.... please... the reason tthe ppl where lead to believe there was a connection was because the way the press reported what Bush said... the press are the ones that said there was a connection not Bush... if 70% of ppl actally believe this is because the lib press has brainwashed them... if the press would report the truth and not the "truth" as they see it things would be different...