smoking marijuana

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='sidemunch88' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:59 PM']where does the Church forbid marijuana???
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CCC
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. [color=red]They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.[/color]

The Church outlawed cannabis or "marijuana" 12th century. In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII proclaimed marijuana to be an unholy sacrament of the satanic mass.

[ironmonk]

Interesting...
[quote]Whe[b]re the Church Draws the Line on Drugs    [/b]
[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/civilization/cc0110.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ion/cc0110.html[/url]

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 22, 2001 - Should drugs be legalized? Is it a good idea to give addicts drugs? How should drug trafficking be combated?

Answers to these questions are contained in a manual on drugs and Church policy published this month by the Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers. "Church, Drugs, and Drug Addiction" should be available in English early next year.

The manual begins with an overview of John Paul II's teaching on drug use. The Pope points out that drugs are one of the main threats facing young people, including children.

The document identifies many causes behind drug use. Some see it as a way of expressing personal liberty. Others see it as just another way to look for pleasure. Still others view it as a way to escape suffering, solitude and isolation. Sometimes a lack of values and convictions that could give firm points of reference for personal development means that many are easy prey for drug pushers.

John Paul II also thinks that the decision to use drugs might often spring from an ambience of skepticism and hedonism that leads to feelings of frustration and a lack of meaning in people's lives.

THE AUTHORs of the manual point out that the growth in drug use should lead society to a serious reflection. An increasing number of people are turning to drugs because modern life leaves them unsatisfied and anxious about their future.

Insofar as drug use is linked to the search for pleasure, the manual explains the superficiality of this desire. It points out how by giving priority to pleasure seeking the drug user enters in conflict with the reality of everyday life and its obligations.

Pleasure, in different forms, has a legitimate function in our lives, notes the document. But it needs to be ordered according to a correct hierarchy. But with drugs an immediate satisfaction of the desire for pleasure is sought, bypassing the use of our capacities of intelligence and willpower that should regulate our lives.

It is a serious error, notes the document, to think that our desires for peace, happiness and personal satisfaction will be automatically fulfilled by means ingesting some type of chemical cocktail.

Merchants of death

What is the Church's judgment on illegal drug use? Catholic morality firmly rejects whatever use of illegal drugs. In fact John Paul II has referred to pushers as "merchants of death" and warns potential drug users against using substances that offer the illusion of liberty and false promises of happiness.

To use drugs, notes the Pope, is always illicit because it involves an unjustified and irrational abdication of our capabilities to think, choose and act as persons. It's also false to speak of any "right" to drugs, because we never have any right to abdicate the personal dignity that God has given us. Using drugs, John Paul II has said, not only damages our health but also frustrates our capacity to live in community and to offer ourselves to others.

The fight against drug is a grave duty for those in public authority, the Pope insists. Enforcement of drug laws is crucial for protecting society and individuals from grave danger, the manual says. And widespread violations of the law should not lessen the effort to enforce it, the document insists.

At the same time, the manual explains that drugs are not just a legal problem. Solving drug abuse also depends on factors such as offering young people a sense to their lives and decent surroundings in which they can mature.

Legalization?

The Church opposes the legalization of drugs. This includes so-called soft drugs, which it sees as fomenting the same type of dependence mentality and the loss of personal dignity that hard drugs produce.

The manual points out that the state has a duty to protect citizens and promote the common good. Legalizing drugs would be a serious blow to potential users, damaging their health and stunting their lives.

From a medical point of view, the division between soft and hard drugs is hard to draw. In many cases what is more important is the quantity of substances consumed, how they have been taken and whether they have been mixed. Moreover, new drugs are constantly arriving on the scene, along with new side effects and questions about their potency.

The Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers also points out that drug abuse has significant non-physical effects. The psychological and behavioral consequences of soft drugs lead to substantial problems, even if their physiological effects are not as serious as those of hard drugs.

How then can we best fight against drug abuse? The document suggests three courses of action: prevention, suppression of trafficking and rehabilitation.

Prevention can be brought about by offering to potential victims of drugs the human values of love and life, illuminated by faith, the Pope has stated. In this way we can give meaning to our lives. The Church offers people the gift of God's love, with her word and with Christ's grace.

The document also stresses the role of the family in providing for children a solid education that teaches them to avoid ever starting with drugs. Youth groups and parishes can also play a part, by promoting a lifestyle based on evangelical values and contact with God that will lead to the discovery of what is the true meaning of our human existence.

Fighting against the international network of drug traffickers is also important, notes the manual. Regional and international cooperation is needed to overcome the power of crime syndicates.

Drug suppliers and merchants should be the primary object of legal and police action, affirms the document. While it would be a mistake to leave unpunished ordinary drug users, authorities should take into account the personal and social factors that led them into addiction. Above all, users should be helped to escape from their dependence.

The Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers notes that the Church has been successfully treating drug addicts for years. John Paul II has encouraged parents of young addicts to keep up hope and to maintain dialogue with their children. Family love is a potent weapon in fighting drug use, he says.

The Church also offers to addicts the hope contained in Christ's love for each person. The manual notes that a life based on a personal relationship with Christ is the only way to satisfy our personal desires. (Zenit.org).- ZE01122201 [/quote]

[Socrates]

Nothing gets people posting more on Phatmass than threads on dope! (Except maybe threads on masturbation.)

[sidemunch88]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:15 PM']Wow... we found a lot of "Don't rep the church" on this thread.
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I am sorry you think that. I am arguing in order to find the truth of the matter. I wouldn't smoke marijuana, but I want to see someone prove that it is wrong. I see you are unwilling to do so.

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:17 PM']Those "facts" are not exactly facts.
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Prove it ironmonk.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='Feb 8 2006, 05:16 PM']CCC
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. [color=red]They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.[/color]

The Church outlawed cannabis or "marijuana" 12th century. In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII proclaimed marijuana to be an unholy sacrament of the satanic mass.
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Please site the source if you would be so kind Knight of Christ

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 8 2006, 06:33 PM']Interesting...
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Once again marijuana is not mentioned. You disappoint me Ironmonk

[sidemunch88]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 8 2006, 07:01 PM']Nothing gets people posting more on Phatmass than threads on dope!  (Except maybe threads on masturbation.)
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Masturbation is specifically condemned [i]by name[/i] in the Catechism.
Marijuana is not mentioned in the Catechism.
that is the difference

[Era Might]

Scoring no points/
Just smoke joints/
And toke your life away
You might have another year or two/
But you really died today

--Manchild

[sidemunch88]

I was gonna clean my room until I got high
I gonna get up and find the broom but then I got high
my room is still messed up and I know why
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

I was gonna go to class before I got high
I coulda cheated and I coulda passed but I got high
I am taking it next semester and I know why
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

I was gonna go to work but then I got high
I just got a new promotion but I got high
now I'm selling dope and I know why
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

I was gonna go to court before I got high
I was gonna pay my child support but then I got high
they took my whole paycheck and I know why
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

I wasnt gonna run from the cops but I was high
I was gonna pull right over and stop but I was high
Now I am a paraplegic - because I got high [repeat 3X]

I was gonna pay my car note until I got high
I was gonna gamble on the boat but then I got high
now the tow truck is pulling away and I know why
- because I got high [repeat 3X]

I messed up my entire life because I got high
I lost my kids and wife because I got high
now I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and I know why
- cause I got high [repeat 3X]

I'm gonna stop singing this song because I'm high
I'm singing this whole thing wrong because I'm high
and if I dont sell one copy I know why
- cause I'm high [repeat 3X]

[Tata126]

I'd guess that drugs that alter or impair one's ability to reason are sinful, so taking any narcotic would be sinful. That's why drinking in moderation would not be sinful, but marijuana would.

[peacenluvbaby]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Feb 7 2006, 05:32 PM']I don't think, however, that it is possible to smoke/eat marijuana and not become 'drunk'.
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Actually a few puffs can have the same effect for many as a glass or two of red wine...relaxation and calm....ok there might be munchies later.... I hang with smokers sometimes, and even they are usually less than drunk after passing a joint around. I dont think that moderate, self-controlled use is sinful - especially if you reside in a place like the Netherlands or even other European countries, or California, where amounts for personal use are legal, and only the selling (not buying) is illegal. However, if by smoking one risks the security of a family - you could lose your job or something...then its sinful on a totally different level, like coming to work intentionally without the proper dress code and getting fired.


Peace!

ps I dont smoke

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Feb 8 2006, 05:12 PM']explain to me the difference between the effects of marijuana and the effects of alcohol.
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and just like that it dies....

[Sojourner]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Feb 9 2006, 03:18 PM']and just like that it dies.... 
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I have a friend who could do it eloquently. I know there are differences in the effects, but not well enough to tell you off the top.

[Aloysius]

I think the effects of alcohol are different than the effects of marijuana in [i]degree[/i] but not necessarily in kind.

The degree of the smoking of one joint, as the smoke puts it right into the lungs and thus the bloodstreme, is about the equivalent of the degree of being drunk on alcohol. Getting drunk is a mortal sin. Getting high is a mortal sin.

There is such a thing as drinking alcohol to the point of hilarity which livens up the social situation and has many good effects. I am not so sure (though I do not know from personal experience) there is such a thing as smoking pot to hilarity.

If there is no way to smoke marijuana with the virtue of temperence, then there is no way to morally smoke marijuana. You would have to argue that there is a way to smoke marijuana with temperence, smoking to hilarity rather than smoking to a sort of drunkeness.

[bx_racer]

ok i havent smoked it either but i do have a lot friends that do and trust me you dont get "drunk" off of one or two puffs. that's stronger stuff, hydra or something like that. but regular pot won't. anyway if its possible to use in moderation and legal in many places, is it a sin to travel to another country such as canada, or a state where small amounts are allowed in moderation and smoke some?

[ironmonk]

sidemunch,

There has already been ample evidence posted so that it doesn't need to say "marijuana". I'm sorry that you did not understand how it applies, but I found another article for you....


[quote][b]Scientific Findings Prove Harms of Soft Drugs [/b]
[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3532"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3532[/url]
Rome -- One of the various issues temporarily overshadowed by the U.S. presidential election quagmire was the softening of anti-drug restrictions. A string of referendums in some states accomplished this. For example, California voters approved Proposition 36, which will bar state courts from sentencing those convicted of simple drug possession to prison, instead routing abusers of even heroin and cocaine into mandatory treatment. For their part, voters in Nevada and Colorado approved the use of "medical marijuana," while measures to make it more difficult for the police to acquire and use the proceeds of drug-related forfeitures were approved in Oregon and Utah. Despite stringent federal laws, the medical use of marijuana had already been already approved in California, Oregon, Washington, Maine, Hawaii, and Alaska.


But campaigns to loosen laws on marijuana use, as reported by ZENIT news agency (December 23, 2001), are under way in many other countries, from Canada to England, from Australia to New Zealand and Italy. Their proponents argue that it is no worse than tobacco or alcohol and that it is hypocritical to ban this "soft" drug. Others assert that for people suffering intense pain, marijuana may help restore appetite and improve general well being.


This trend is based on the fallacious distinction between "soft" and hard drugs. Under this distinction, marijuana would have to be regarded as belonging to the former category and therefore as being innocuous. Whenever the upholders of such a distinction, including financier George Soros who is known for pledging to "make war on the war on drugs," are asked to offer scientific evidence of this, what they offer amounts to propaganda. Why? For the simple reason that the opposite is true. "Soft" drugs do not exist and marijuana is a dangerous, harmful substance.


This is an area in which science, if it cannot prove, it can at least corroborate religious and moral tenets, in much the same way as certain archaeological discoveries uphold episodes in the Bible.


[b]Notably, Pope John Paul II has constantly ruled out the liberalization of drugs. He did so as recently as last October, when he met Fr. Pierino Gelmini with members of his Comunita Incontro (Encounter Community), which helps young people recover from drug dependency. On the occasion the Holy Father pointed out that "drugs are never a solution" and the Church "intends to reaffirm this conviction forcefully in the face of opinions favoring the liberalization of narcotics, or at least their partial legalization on the grounds that free access to these substances will help to limit or reduce their harm to individuals and to society. Drugs are not fought with drugs… Drugs are not overcome by drugs, but an extensive work ... to replace the culture of death with the culture of life" (cf. L'Osservatore Romano, English edition, November 1, 2000). [/b]

As to the specific health-related aspect, [b][u]the Church's uncompromising stance [/u]is based also on the fact that no distinction is possible between the so-called soft drugs, that is, marijuana, and those commonly considered hard drugs such as heroin. To varying degrees, all these illicit drugs are seriously harmful. [/b]

To set the record straight, the harms marijuana produces have been known for a long time. Now, however, not only are these harms scientifically verifiable, but the research has discovered that even the DNA may be impaired by the use of "soft" drugs.


These findings were made by a top world scientist and UN consultant on narcotics, Gabriel G. Nahas, who is a research professor of anesthesiology at the New York University Medical Center and an adjunct professor at the University of Paris, faculty of medicine. Dr. Nahas granted me an exclusive interview late last fall, which is printed at the end of this article. The interview took place on the sidelines of the sixth annual Rainbow International Meeting in Coriano, a picturesque location near Rimini.


The Rainbow event was hosted in the auditorium of the Comunita San Patrignano (or Sanpa, as is more familiarly called), whose facilities for the rehabilitation of drug addicts are probably the best in the world.


Its achievements are all the more impressive if one considers that it is a private-run operation which is not funded by the state: 70% of its funds are self-generated, resulting from the sale of services and products made by its guests, ranging from ceramic tiles and pottery to book restoration, from textile weaving to furniture, from dairy farming to horse and dog breeding The remaining 30% comes from donations, while the family's patients are not charged a single penny. San Patrignano was set up in 1978, when the late Vincenzo Muccioli started the center in a huge estate he already owned. The community over time developed into its present form and size. In 1979 the juridical status of the community was changed into a cooperative and in 1985 it was incorporated as a foundation.


It houses almost 2,000 people with a 75% rate of successful recoveries. After founder Vincenzo Muccioli's death three years ago, his eldest son Andrea took over and he is running the enterprise with his next of kin.


Andrea Muccioli is also president of the above-mentioned Rainbow International Association Against Drugs, which San Patrignano co-founded in August 1995, along with four other major international therapeutic communities from Europe and North America: Basta Arbetskooperativ of Sweden, De Hoop of Netherlands, Klub 47 of Denmark, and Vitanova Foundation of Canada. To date, over 100 rehabilitation and therapeutic communities around the world are members of Rainbow.


Among the keynote speakers was the president of the Italian Bishops' Conference, Camillo Cardinal Ruini, who reaffirmed the Catholic Church's anti-liberalization stance. He pointed out that not even one syringe was found after the recent 15th World Youth Day, August 15-20, 2000, when over 2 million young people converged on Rome to celebrate the Jubilee with the Holy Father.


Another highlight of the Sanpa event was the International Rainbow Award conferred on Queen Silvia of Sweden by Antonietta Muccioli, the widow of Vincenzo. The queen received the award for "her commitment to the concerns of youth and disadvantaged people and for her devoted attention to the prevention of drug abuse worldwide."


A number of Italy's government ministers were also present, including Minister of Foreign Affairs Lamberto Dini, Minister of Justice Piero Fassino, and his colleague for parliamentary affairs, Patrizia Toia. Pino Arlacchi, the UN Italian vice-secretary general and head of the UN Drug Control Program, opened the proceedings.


Here follows the interview with Dr. Nahas.

Q. Dr. Nahas, you are a world scientific authority known for your studies on marijuana and its related effects, publishing ten books and over 200 papers. You said you had an important finding to communicate: What is it all about?

A. These findings [on the effects of marijuana] have been known for a long time but are still ignored. Today, on the basis of the available evidence, it's very clear that marijuana damages the formation of DNA in dividing cells. [DNA is the substance in the body which carries the genetic code and which programs all cell functions.] This impairment of DNA formation occurs in the dividing cells of the testes. [THC, the active product of marijuana] has been shown to impair the development of sperm cells, in man as well as in six other animal species.


These [findings] were shown experimentally 25 years ago and have been ever since. The facts are recorded in 12 chapters of my recent book, Marijuana and Medicine, published in 1999 by Humana Press [Totowa, N.J.]. In spite of these facts, many scientists, including Nobel Prize winners, are accepting the social use of this drug, either for medical or recreational purpose. Some are even promoting its legalization because there is no scientific proof of the biological damage caused by marijuana.


Now the truth has finally emerged. Scientists have proven that marijuana or THC produces early apoptosis of fast-dividing cells of the testes and of the immunity system.

Q. What is apoptosis?

A. It is a new scientific term, which describes the "programmed cell death" of all our cells as they grow older. Biochemically, it is related to an impairment of DNA synthesis by the cell, triggered from a membrane signal. It also accounts for our original finding reported 25 years ago on the damaging effects of marijuana and THC, its active ingredient, on sperm cells and replicating lymphocytes.

Q. Why is apoptosis so dangerous?

A. Because it is an irreversible biological process, that of cell death. THC gives to the dividing cell of the testes, the spermatozoa, a death signal. It gives the same death signal to the lymphocytes.

Q. Is THC also dangerous to brain cells?

A. Because THC, after it is absorbed, will first distribute in fat, from which it is released very slowly into the blood in a concentration, which remains toxic to the cells of the testes and of the white blood cells, it accumulates in fat for many days after a single dose. [It does so] for months after repeated dosing…


Fat is the most prevalent tissue in our body. It can store large amounts of fat-soluble substances. The storage of marijuana [THC] in fat has been reported in 1972 [by Nobel Prize winner J. Axelrod]. This seminal report means that its action is very prolonged. After a single dose of marijuana [THC], 50% of the THC will be stored in fat for five days, and [it takes] 30 days for the complete elimination of THC from the body. If someone takes marijuana every two days, he will store in fat ten times more than the initial dose after ten days and 30 times more after 30 days. These facts indicate that there are huge reservoirs of fat for THC, from which THC will be slowly released, and affect the cells of the immunity system, sperm cells, and the developing fetus.

Q. And what about the brain?

A. THC attaches persistently to the membrane of the brain cell and alters the functions of the brain, the expression of our emotions and our thinking. This novel finding was just reported at San Patrignano, the greatest drug rehabilitation center in the world. It was also reported at recent scientific meetings. Marijuana and THC target the membrane of the brain cell. That is to say the outer lining, which protects the cell against the death signals of apoptosis, which come from the environment. These death signals result from a pollution of the environment and are transmitted through the membrane to the inner part of the cell where DNA is concentrated. THC impairs the signaling in the membrane. The membrane is a lipid structure which signals in a positive or negative fashion to all of the substances inside the cell and which contain DNA. DNA is the master signaling structure, which programs all activities of the cell. The cell membrane is a sort of fiddler trying to keep away from the interior of the cell and from DNA death signals.


It is very difficult to express in simple terms the nature of those biochemical signals. It is the first time we have a general explanation of the mechanisms of the action of THC, which disturbs the function of all cells. Now this mechanism, which operates at the molecular level, is still a mystery of life. We have described with many others the molecular events triggered by THC and which first disturb and eventually destroy cell function and structure. THC deregulates the signaling of the cell membrane. There is at present no physical theory to account for the mechanism of this deregulation of brain function by THC.


This mechanism is similar to that which expresses our conscience. We still don't understand the mechanism by which all the digital signals converging into our brain are converted into analog, symbolic signals. The transformation of these biochemical digital mechanisms into analog symbolic representations is not understood. The grave mistake of biological scientists today is to explain every biological event by reductionist measurements as if the brain were a computer.

Q. Is marijuana a threat to public health?

A. Yes. Consumption of marijuana creates a major problem of public health in modern industrial societies of the West. Indeed, it threatens the generations, which are the future of Europe since now the population of Europe is decreasing and more and more replaced by immigrants who also become victims of drug addiction.


But even more, marijuana threatens the capacity of future generations to conceive healthy offspring. In Paris, Dr. Jouanet has reported that the sperm count of men in Paris has been decreasing for the past 20 years in a significant fashion. It is also known in fertility clinics that samples of sperm taken from users of marijuana have high incidences of abnormalities, which actually disqualify the donor.

Q. Do you believe that drug trafficking can be likened to crimes against humanity?

A. Certainly, because traffickers of drugs illegally accumulate immense wealth in selling substances which impair DNA, the patrimony of mankind, and imperil future generations.

Q. And therefore what should be done in this regard?

A. The international United Nations Convention of 1960 banning use, possession, and trafficking of marijuana under penalty of law should be strictly applied in all nations in the world as it is today in China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, and Myanmar. It is also applied in Islamic countries allied to the United States like Saudi Arabia. The law is also applied with lesser penalties in Sweden and [other] Scandinavian countries. [/quote]



God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='bx_racer' date='Feb 9 2006, 10:43 PM']ok i havent smoked it either but i do have a lot friends that do and trust me you dont get "drunk" off of one or two puffs. that's stronger stuff, hydra or something like that. but regular pot won't. anyway if its possible to use in moderation and legal in many places, is it a sin to travel to another country such as canada, or a state where small amounts are allowed in moderation and smoke some?
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I have a lot of friends that use it and I have smoked it in the past.

You do "get drunk" off of a couple puffs. Tolerance does build up, but stupid mistakes still happen off of a couple puffs.

It is an illicit drug... therefore a sin.

God Bless,
ironmonk