Greek in the Mass

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 6 2006, 12:39 AM']I should at least get a T-shirt or a coffee mug
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haha, true dat.

I must note however, that a common answer would probably be to simply say that the earliest Roman Liturgies were in Greek and that the [i]Kurie [/i]is simply a surviving remnant of that time. The creed was prayed in Greek in Roman (Latin) Liturgies for many centuries for example. But I would challenge a person who would answer thus to find evidence for the Greek [i]Kurie [/i]in a Latin Liturgy prior to the 5th or 6th century. It was clearly something changed a few centuries after the use of Latin in the Liturgy had come to dominate the Roman Church.

I could be wrong though. If I am wrong then the simple answer is that the earlier Liturgies were in Greek and the Kurie stuck, but I really don't think this explanation would hold up to historical scrutiny.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Krostandt' date='Feb 6 2006, 12:39 AM']I will say though, based on other ancient languages, that classical pronunciation does seem to be correct.  Also, if you read poety, classical latin fits in better than ecclesiastical.  Difference in opinion, I reckon.  Classical and Ecclesastical and in twain they shall never meet
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If devotees of classical Latin literature prefer the so-called classical pronunciation it doesn't really bother me. But as a Catholic I think the Ecclesiastical pronunciation should have the priority. And given the continuity of Latin and Italian I think this is a beautiful thing. I imagine Aquinas or Saint Francis probably spoke Latin more in the ecclesiastical manner. Aesthetically I just think it sounds better too, but that is certainly just personal taste. Imagining Caesar proclaiming "Wenie Weedie Weekie" ([i]veni, vidi vici[/i]), just seems rather gay to me. The ecclesiastically pronounced version of that phrase would strike me as regal and profound.

[journeyman]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 6 2006, 12:33 AM']woohoo!  Do I get a prize for stumping you?
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didacus gives away free T-shirts from time to time . . . but I don't think he delivers

[photosynthesis]

I want a Didacus Corp. T-shirt

[jezic]

Why did we get rid of the Greek?

[Snarf]

Mainly because Latin was more universal, hence the vulgarity of the Vulgate. There's far more difference between Hellenistic Greek and Bynzantine than there is between Attic and Hellenistic, so the Koine of the NT and Septuagint was being constantly bastardized by the Eastern Church into newer and newer translations, whereas Latin (pronunciation aside) was evolved into Romance languages but kept as a separate entity. Secular Bibles do exist in the Dark Ages, but they're exceptionally rare. The Westerners had a greater appreciation to not tamper with perfection, id est, Jerome's translation, and the mass reflected this.

[Sojourner]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I read "Geek in the Mass" and I get a little offended until I realize it's [b]Greek[/b].

[Snarf]

As an aside, the missal doxology of the Our Father (For thine is the Kingdom...) was put into the margins of a Bynzantine master's translation, and his followers assumed that he had accidentally left it out of the corpus of the text so they included it within their translations of the Gospel. Protestant translators, naively assuming that the Bynzantine translations were the same as the Koine, read these faulty translations and incorporated the doxology into the Gospel itself. That's why Protestants ALWAYS include the doxology in the prayer.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 7 2006, 03:39 PM']

Every time I see the title of this thread, I read "Geek in the Mass" and I get a little offended until I realize it's [b]Greek[/b].



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aaaack!!! A geek in the mass! Head for the hills!

[quote name='Snarf' date='Feb 7 2006, 03:45 PM']As an aside, the missal doxology of the Our Father (For thine is the Kingdom...) was put into the margins of a Bynzantine master's translation, and his followers assumed that he had accidentally left it out of the corpus of the text so they included it within their translations of the Gospel.  Protestant translators, naively assuming that the Bynzantine translations were the same as the Koine, read these faulty translations and incorporated the doxology into the Gospel itself.  That's why Protestants ALWAYS include the doxology in the prayer.
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