Cow of Shame Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 4 2006, 01:12 AM']Sir, Look in the third-to-last post I just posted. [right][snapback]875314[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ah. The answer would be 'no', then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 (edited) Is this the article that someone was referring to earlier?[quote]Theological Commission Studying Limbo Will Publish Document on Question VATICAN CITY, DEC. 2, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The International Theological Commission announced that it will publish a document on children who die without being baptized. The question of limbo has been one of the arguments addressed by the annual plenary session of the commission, which met in the Vatican until today. Archbishop William Levada, president of the commission and prefect of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told Vatican Radio that the discussion on the existence of limbo "has been very useful." "One can hope that in a reasonably brief time the study undertaken by the Theological Commission will have a positive result given the eventual publication of a document in this regard," he explained. The documents of this commission are not part of the Church's magisterium. They are intended to help the Holy See, especially the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to examine doctrinal questions of great importance. "In the present moment of cultural relativism and religious pluralism, the number of children who are not baptized increases considerably. In this situation, the ways to attain salvation seem ever more complicated and problematic," said the archbishop. Salvation for all The Church is conscious of the fact that salvation "can only be attained in Christ through the spirit. But it cannot fail to reflect, as mother and teacher, on the fate of men created in the image of God, and in a particular way of the weakest and those who still do not have the use of reason and freedom," said the American prelate. [b]Jesuit Father Luis Ladaria, secretary-general of the commission, explained on Vatican Radio "there is no dogmatic definition" of limbo. "There is no Catholic doctrine that is binding," he said. "We know that during many centuries it was thought that children went to limbo, where they enjoyed a natural happiness, but they did not have the vision of God. "Because of recent developments, not only theological but also of the magisterium, this belief is in crisis today." [/b] There are keys to understand the question, said Father Ladaria: "We must begin with the fact that God wants the salvation of all and does not want to exclude any one; we must base ourselves on the fact that Christ died for all men and that the Church is a universal sacrament of salvation, as the Second Vatican Council teaches. "Therefore, if we begin from these premises, the problem of the need of baptism is framed in a broader context."[/quote] Edited February 4, 2006 by Paphnutius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote]QUOTE(StThomasMore @ Feb 4 2006, 12:06 AM)You think I care what the Pope says if it is not infallable or darn close to infallable? If that's the case why are you so adamant about Limbo? This is not a defined dogma nor is it anywhere near infallible [/quote] No, no, no! I said that wrong! I care about everything the popes from AD 33- AD 1965 said. It's anything the Pope said that wasnt infallable AFTER 1965 that I dont care about [quote]A table is not allowed for Mass, or it shouldn't be. An altar is not a table and it's unfair to say that the Novus Ordo's altar should be equated with a table because some people with faulty theology say so.[/quote] ugh! alot of the more liberal Novus Ordo parishes' Altars are tables. And by the way, I have to go to the NO half of the time, so I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Ahh, but the abuses do not mean the norm. I whine about stuff like that all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 11:24 PM'] It's anything the Pope said that wasnt infallable AFTER 1965 that I dont care about[/quote]So I was right. It does matter to you when a person was Pope. I suppose Tradition stopped in that year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Hey Look, the Holy Father [i]was[/i] part of it. Does that count? [quote]Meeting Nov. 28-Dec. 2 at the Vatican, the International Theological Commission, a group of theologians led by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger until his election as Pope Benedict XVI, completed its work on a statement regarding "the fate of babies who have died without baptism."[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 where do such extreme kids at such a young age come from??? Everytime I read these posts I don't know whether to cry or scream or pray... I'll get my rosary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [QUOTE]Salvation for all [/QUOTE Have you all heard of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (and no I'm not talking about the user who posts here)? It means "Outside the Church there is No Salvation." It is a dogma that I firmly hold to. That means I believe that no Jew, Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Neo-Pagan, Protostant, Greek Orthodox, or person who has not been Baptized by Water or Blood or Desire cannot enter Heaven. It is a very contraversial belief, but I hold strong to it. The Holy See should hold strong to it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Umm, most of the Christians you mentioned are Baptized... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Feb 4 2006, 12:22 AM']Is this the article that someone was referring to earlier? [right][snapback]875325[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i think that's the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote]where do such extreme kids at such a young age come from??? [/quote] www.fisheaters.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote]Umm, most of the Christians you mentioned are Baptized... [/quote] non-Catholic Christians deny teachings of the Church and therefore are heretics and commit a mortal sin and cannot be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 11:30 PM']Have you all heard of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (and no I'm not talking about the user who posts here)? It means "Outside the Church there is No Salvation." It is a dogma that I firmly hold to. That means I believe that no Jew, Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Neo-Pagan, Protostant, Greek Orthodox, or person who has not been Baptized by Water or Blood or Desire cannot enter Heaven. It is a very contraversial belief, but I hold strong to it. [b]The Holy See should hold strong to it more[/b]. [right][snapback]875335[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You mis understood what they were saying. They were not saying that all will be saved. They were saying that it is God's will for all to be saved (i.e. He died for all vs many). But not all will be saved as you mentioned by pointing out EENS. I am not quite sure if you understand Baptism of desire. Perhaps we should discuss the post I made with the CCC which is authoritative no? I hope you read the Apostolic Constitution. Do you think that a person who is Pagan on an island in the middle of no-where that has never heard of Christ because no one has brought him the Gospel can be saved at all? You are critiquing Rome now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 4 2006, 12:34 AM']non-Catholic Christians deny teachings of the Church and therefore are heretics and commit a mortal sin and cannot be saved. [right][snapback]875339[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Heresy is the d[b]eliberate[/b] denial of Doctrine. Most non-Catholic Christians do not even know Catholic doctrine and therefore cannot, in the true sense of the word be called heretics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 (edited) [quote name='missionseeker' date='Feb 3 2006, 11:39 PM']Heresy is the d[b]eliberate[/b] denial of Doctrine. Most non-Catholic Christians do not even know Catholic doctrine and therefore cannot, in the true sense of the word be called heretics. [right][snapback]875342[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Indeed. You are failing to make a distinction between a formal heretic and a material heretic. Your everyday protestant is a material heretic and not a formal one, therefore usually not in mortal sin due to heresy. Back to the matter at hand...Do you conceed that the CCC is authoritative? If so then please reconcile the Baltimore Catechism with the CCC. Edited February 4, 2006 by Paphnutius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now