Krush2k2 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Any catholic teaching on where stillborn babies go? My step sister just had triplets and they all died stillborn, so this question has been on my mind all day. Thank ya pham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 They go to the Limbo of the Infants, which is on the edge of Hell. In the Limbo of the Infants, there in no punishment, its inhabitants do not have beatic vision, and its inhabitants will be eternally happy. They cannot enter heaven because they were never baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 09:16 PM']They go to the Limbo of the Infants, which is on the edge of Hell. In the Limbo of the Infants, there in no punishment, its inhabitants do not have beatic vision, and its inhabitants will be eternally happy. They cannot enter heaven because they were never baptized. [right][snapback]875120[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Just a point speaking about the realms of the afterlife, Limbo is in the realm of theological speculation so that is not a hard fact. Just thought I would mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 We commend them to the mercy of God. Prayers for your sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote]We commend them to the mercy of God.[/quote] They go to Limbo. God does not let the unbaptized enter Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 10:16 PM']They go to the Limbo of the Infants, which is on the edge of Hell. In the Limbo of the Infants, there in no punishment, its inhabitants do not have beatic vision, and its inhabitants will be eternally happy. They cannot enter heaven because they were never baptized. [right][snapback]875120[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 10:44 PM']They go to Limbo. God does not let the unbaptized enter Heaven. [right][snapback]875182[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You should read less Dante and more Thomas Aquinas. Limbus infantium is denied by the Baltimore Catechism and claimed as a mere possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote]No reason can be given -- so argued the Angelic Doctor -- for exempting unbaptized children from the material torments of Hell (poena sensus) that does not hold good, even a fortiori, for exempting them also from internal spiritual suffering (poena damni in the subjective sense), since the latter in reality is the more grievous penalty, and is more opposed to the mitissima poena which St. Augustine was willing to admit (De Malo, V, art. iii). Hence he expressly denies that they suffer from any "interior affliction", in other words that they experience any pain of loss (nihil omnino dolebunt de carentia visionis divinae -- "In Sent.", II, 33, q. ii, a.2). At first ("In Sent.", loc. cit.), St. Thomas held this absence of subjective suffering to be compatible with a consciousness of objective loss or privation, the resignation of such souls to the ways of God's providence being so perfect that a knowledge of what they had lost through no fault of their own does not interfere with the full enjoyment of the natural goods they possess. Afterwards, however, he adopted the much simpler psychological explanation which denies that these souls have any knowledge of the supernatural destiny they have missed, this knowledge being itself supernatural, and as such not included in what is naturally due to the separated soul (De Malo loc. cit.). It should be added that in St. Thomas' view the limbus infantium is not a mere negative state of immunity from suffering and sorrow, but a state of positive happiness in which the soul is united to God by a knowledge and love of him proportionate to nature's capacity. The teaching of St. Thomas was received in the schools, almost without opposition, down to the Reformation period. The very few theologians who, with Gregory of Rimini, stood out for the severe Augustinian view, were commonly designated by the opprobrious name of tortores infantium. Some writers, like Savonarola (De triumbpho crucis, III, 9) and Catharinus (De statu parvulorum sine bapt. decedentium), added certain details to the current teaching -- for example that the souls of unbaptized children will be united to glorious bodies at the Resurrection, and that the renovated earth of which St. Peter speaks (2 Peter 3:13) will be their happy dwelling place for eternity.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 10:44 PM']They go to Limbo. God does not let the unbaptized enter Heaven. [right][snapback]875182[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Church hasn't decided this yet, and are actually currently studying the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Limbo is a perfectly good belief and has been greatly supported over the years by MANY theologians and Popes. It is a much better alternative to having the unbaptized souls of infants burning in Hell! Alot of liberal Catholics claim unbaptized infants' souls go to Heaven, which has NEVER been approved of or supported by the Church. This reminds me of something else: It is perfectly good to believe in the Fatima apparations which have been supported by many bishops and Popes. Alot of liberal Catholics, though, dont believe in them, but believe in the heretical Medjegoure apparations which have been CONDEMNED by the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I would hate to think that my big brother is on the edge of Hell because he died before he had the chance to be baptized. Also, my parents baptized his remains, which Im pretty sure is called baptism of desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 StThomasMore, Are you a Feeneyite? It sounds so. You've essentially denied any place for the Baptism by desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 11:04 PM']Limbo is a perfectly good belief and has been greatly supported over the years by MANY theologians and Popes. It is a much better alternative to having the unbaptized souls of infants burning in Hell! Alot of liberal Catholics claim unbaptized infants' souls go to Heaven, which has NEVER been approved of or supported by the Church. This reminds me of something else: It is perfectly good to believe in the Fatima apparations which have been supported by many bishops and Popes. Alot of liberal Catholics, though, dont believe in them, but believe in the heretical Medjegoure apparations which have been CONDEMNED by the Church. [right][snapback]875223[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It might be a perfectly good belief but it is not dogma until the church says it is. There is a commission studying it right now and the Church will decide not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 3 2006, 09:44 PM']They go to Limbo. [/quote] Plese show me that de fide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 (edited) [quote]StThomasMore, Are you a Feeneyite? It sounds so. You've essentially denied any place for the Baptism by desire. [/quote] NO I AM NOT A FEENYITE!!!!!! DONT CALL ME A HERETIC!!!!!! THATS VERY INSULTING!!!!!!!!! now that we're past that, Baptism can only be done on ALIVE person. It did not count to baptize the remains of someone. Of course, if the parents were Catholic and planned on baptizing the child VERY soon after birth (it is a mortal sin to prospone baptism more that a month) then there may have been a Baptism of Desire. Baptism of Desire, though, is only guariteed to those who are Catechumins, though some speculate it may also be recieved by those whose parents plan to baptize them, but die before that is able to happen. Everyone has a personal instance where a brother or sister died soon after birth or before birth or something. I myself do! That does not, though, mean that the baby goes to heaven just because he was your brother or sister! Edited February 4, 2006 by StThomasMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Feb 3 2006, 11:18 PM']Plese show me that de fide. [right][snapback]875235[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If anyone shows me in a definitive statement by the Holy Father, I'll be willing to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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