catholicinsd Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) [quote name='FutureNunJMJ' date='Feb 3 2006, 01:41 PM']Dude, you are starting to sound like a fundie... [right][snapback]874550[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, my friend is. In order to convert a fundi you gotta act like one. PS Way to get out of ansering my question. Edited February 3, 2006 by catholicinsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 The Holy Scripture contains all we need to know for salvation. The Catechism simply helps one to unfold the meaning of the Scriptures through the lens of 2000 years of tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 They are complimentary. The Holy Spirit works through the Magisterium of the Church and is the author of the Bible. Each book is his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccoli Fiori JMJ Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 3 2006, 01:43 PM']Well, my friend is. In order to convert a fundi you gotta act like one. PS Way to get out of ansering my question. [right][snapback]874553[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You are a Catholic. You are allowed to be one. Don't let anyone persuade you otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' date='Feb 3 2006, 01:44 PM']The Holy Scripture contains all we need to know for salvation. The Catechism simply helps one to unfold the meaning of the Scriptures through the lens of 2000 years of tradition. [right][snapback]874555[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Then why is the reference book as big as the Actual Book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Catholic vs. Catholic debate is not allowed. (just as a side note) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 When you start a conversation with, "why do..." and the response comes back "they don't." that IS an answer to your question. I agree that sometimes, some people in some situations seem to be more familiar with the contents of and quote from the CCC more than they do the BIble, but that doesn't warrent a blanket statement. The reading of Scripture is half the Mass... I have yet to hear one CCC quote at Mass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 The Catechism is NOT ahead of the Bible (and it's only thicker than the Bible if you use a skinny Bible...). The Catechism also quotes the Scriptures quite frequently... they are friends, not enemies. The Bible doesn't stand alone, and was never intended to. We, as Catholics, DO recognize the Bible as the Holy Word of God (read the CCC 103 for a shocker...) and place the Scriptures on a pretty high par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 For the record, I'm asking questions that I think my friend would ask me. I think the CCC is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' date='Feb 3 2006, 02:11 PM']Why do some Catholic always put the CCC, the word of man, ahead of Bible, the Word of God, in importance? Its you folks that are keeping the protestants from returning Home. [right][snapback]874520[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Catechism is the explination of the Faith... that which is taught from Scripture (the written Word) and Sacred Tradition (the Word that is passed through word of mouth). The bible is only part of the Word of God. The bible shows that it is the Church that is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth. [b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is [u][b]the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth[/b][/u]. Christ clearly says that the Church is the authority because the Church is guided by Christ... [b]St Matt 18:17[/b] (Jesus said) If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. [u][b]If he refuses to listen even to the church[/b][/u], then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. [b]Luke 10:16[/b] "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" [b]John 14:16 [/b] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, [b]17 [/b]the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. [b]18 [/b]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. ... [b]26 [/b]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you. The Faith built by Christ was built on the Church, not a book... [b]Ephesians 2:20[/b] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. It is easy for people to misinterpret the Bible and that is why the teachings of the Church should be held higher than our own personal interpretation of the Bible.... not that the Catechism is greater than the bible, but it is equal at least to the bible because it teaches us both sacred tradition and explains the Scriptures. [b]Acts 8:27 [/b] So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, 8 that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship, [b]28 [/b]and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. [b]29 [/b]The Spirit said to Philip, "Go and join up with that chariot." [b]30 [/b]Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, [b]"Do you understand what you are reading?" [/b] [b]31 [/b]He replied, [u][b]"How can I, unless someone instructs me?" [/b][/u]So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him. [b]2 Peter 1:20[/b] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [b]2 Peter 3:16 [/b] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. [b]2 Timothy 3:14 [/b] But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know [b]from [u]whom [/u]you learned it[/b], [b]2 Thess 2:15 [/b] Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. [b]2 Tim 2:2 [/b] And what you heard from me through many witnesses [u][b]entrust to faithful people[/b][/u] who will have the ability to teach others as well. The New Testament was not considered Scripture until 400 AD. Anytime you read "Scriptures" in the New Testament, it is talking about the Old Testament. I hope this helps explain it. God Bless, ironmonk [url="http://www.CatholicSwag.com"]http://www.CatholicSwag.com[/url] <- Shirts to educate the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 ironmonk, you rock. that was a great answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krostandt Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote]Well, my friend is. In order to convert a fundi you gotta act like one. [/quote] I would have a problem with this. If an Orthodox Christian came up to me and said, My friend is _____. In order to convert a ______ you gotta act like one. I'd have a problem. First of all, although conversion of others is important, it's not the prime role as a Christian. Rather, the prime role of a Christian is to love and follow God's law. Thus, I'd tell this hypothetical friend, If you want to convert your friend you don't act like __________, but you act like an Orthodox Christian. Let the Holy Spirit convert them and your orthodox lifestyle. Secondly, I have a problem with this western distinction of CCC, scripture or Tradition. Scripture and Tradition are not two seperate things. Rather, Scripture is an aspect of Holy Tradition which is an aspect of Logos. Simply, Scripture is the part of Tradition written down. To speak for Catholics, correct me if I'm wrong, to say that CCC is above Holy Writ is absurd. It just doesn't follow Logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Further from the Catechism: [quote] The [i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i]...is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illuminated by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church's magisterium.[It is] a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a vaild and legititmate instrument for ecllesial communion. May it serve the renewal to which the Holy Spirit ceaselessly call the Church of God...[/quote] Remember, The Church first had the teaching of Christ handed down through Apostolic Men and the Liturgy before She had the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='Krostandt' date='Feb 3 2006, 06:50 PM']I would have a problem with this. If an Orthodox Christian came up to me and said, My friend is _____. In order to convert a ______ you gotta act like one. I'd have a problem. First of all, although conversion of others is important, it's not the prime role as a Christian. Rather, the prime role of a Christian is to love and follow God's law. Thus, I'd tell this hypothetical friend, If you want to convert your friend you don't act like __________, but you act like an Orthodox Christian. Let the Holy Spirit convert them and your orthodox lifestyle. Secondly, I have a problem with this western distinction of CCC, scripture or Tradition. Scripture and Tradition are not two seperate things. Rather, Scripture is an aspect of Holy Tradition which is an aspect of Logos. Simply, Scripture is the part of Tradition written down. To speak for Catholics, correct me if I'm wrong, to say that CCC is above Holy Writ is absurd. It just doesn't follow Logic. [right][snapback]874573[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You're not wrong. Moreover, the usages of the words 'Scripture' and 'Tradition' are conventions that have arisen usually in conflict/dialogue with Protestants. Until Luther nobody seriously questioned that the Bible found its home within the Church from whence it had sprung forth and from whom the testimony as to its veracity came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicinsd Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 My friend understands and accepts everything about the Church. His only problem is with the CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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