Catholics, Encyclicals, Magesterium, Authority

[Aloysius]

oh and i found all of your statements from bishops opposing the war interesting, but certainly not an excersize of the magisterium. the magisterium deals with things like what a just war is, not what war is just.

[Aloysius]

Humanae Vitae is like the Catechism, to which i was dumfounded whether it was infallible or not. the answer is it is not, yet the teaching contained within it IS INFALLIBLE, for it has been declared the teaching of the ordinary Magisterium. same with Humanae Vitae.

anyway, in Humae Vitae

Equally to be excluded, as the teaching authority of the Church has frequently declared, is direct sterilization, whether perpetual or temporary, whether of the man or of the woman [15]. Similarly excluded is every action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, propose, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible [16].

it declares both of these things to be "as the teaching authority of the Church has frequently declared" thus Magesterium ordinadum.

the teaching contained within Humanae Vitae is infallible teaching not by virtue of Humanae Vitae but by virtue of the constant 2000 year teaching authority of the Church which is affirmed and laid out in Humanae Vitae.

here's a couple good articals

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CHRIST/CONFATAL.TXT

http://www.ad2000.com.au/articles/2003/mar2003p16_1279.html

[Aloysius]

oh, and you know what, if you disagree further, start a thread in the Debate Table, cuz i just realized we kinda turned this into 1... disregard the disareement, people. nothing to see here. :cool:

[cmotherofpirl]

That's good to hear. I thought that you were dissenting from the magisterium's teaching that Bush's war against Iraq was completely unjust. Sorry for the mistake.

THe Pope's opinion is not the same as a Magisterial teaching.

[Aloysius]

that's what i was tryin to say, he doesn't believe me

i'm right about infallibility of anti-contraception doctrine though, right CMOM? thanx :cool:

[cmotherofpirl]

cmom,

any justification for the different list?

also, in a totally unrelated note, congratulations on passing 6,000 posts!

(wow, i got my work ahead of me!)

back on topic, i would like to know why u propose a diff. list then the one i suggested.

thanks,

phatcatholic

abortion

euthanasia

legal system

health care

education

capital punishment

The first two are the most important because they are directly linked to the death of innocent human beings.

The legal system because they are the ones inventing/passin/enforcing/defending these laws, the health care system because they are implementing these laws.

Laws concerning capital punishment need to be clarified so everyone gets fair and equal treatment under the law.

[PhatPhred]

oh, and you know what, if you disagree further, start a thread in the Debate Table, cuz i just realized we kinda turned this into 1... disregard the disareement, people.  nothing to see here. 

I've created the topic Magisterium, Iraqi War, And Birth Control in Debate Table.