Something is wrong with the way they think.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:39 PM']

Actually, I've never heard a liberal say that conservatives use the unborn as political leverage. I've observed that all on my own.

But maybe that's just the liberal voices in my head talking.
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Methinks you need to see a good priest and get those liberal voices in your head exorcised!

Abby, do you even know any real conservatives?

From much of your posting, I'm starting to sincerely doubt it.

Or does "conservative" mean to you only President Bush and a few other politicians you've seen on T.V.?

Are politicians to avoid any speaking on behalf the unborn?
Who are you to judge the heart of every conservative?

And I've seen precious few liberals do anything whatsoever for the unborn!

Really, what is your issue with conservatives?

[Sojourner]

Socrates, I'm quite well aware of where Ironmonk was going with his post. Of course he'd rather talk about people's "sense of entitlement" than about "corporate responsibility." I preferred to go the other direction rather than simply let him rail about how people have lost a sense of personal responsibility. While I'd agree that there have been egregious abuses of the legal system in the form of ridiculous torts, I also think corporations have been guilty of much more egregious abuses. Those, however, aren't quite as sexy as the stupid people who don't know how to use volume control on their iPods.

I know several real conservatives. And several real liberals. And several people somewhere in between who are disillusioned by the extreme views on both end of the spectrum.

Let's turn the question around. Do you know any real liberals? Or does "liberal" mean to you only Senator Kerry and a few other politicians you've seen on television? From the absurd black-and-white stance you take on the subject, I seriously doubt it. Who are you to judge the heart of every liberal?

[PadreSantiago]

this is just like the people who sued mcdonalds for getting fat. Frivolous lawsuits are not a "liberal" thing it's an american thing. Learn the rules

Edited February 3, 2006 by PadreSantiago

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 2 2006, 07:04 PM']Socrates, I'm quite well aware of where Ironmonk was going with his post.  Of course he'd rather talk about people's "sense of entitlement" than about "corporate responsibility." I preferred to go the other direction rather than simply let him rail about how people have lost a sense of personal responsibility. While I'd agree that there have been egregious abuses of the legal system in the form of ridiculous torts, I also think corporations have been guilty of much more egregious abuses. Those, however, aren't quite as sexy as the stupid people who don't know how to use volume control on their iPods.

I know several real conservatives. And several real liberals. And several people somewhere in between who are disillusioned by the extreme views on both end of the spectrum.

Let's turn the question around. Do you know any real liberals? Or does "liberal" mean to you only Senator Kerry and a few other politicians you've seen on television? From the absurd black-and-white stance you take on the subject, I seriously doubt it.  Who are you to judge the heart of every liberal?
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Let's let Ironmonk speak for himself, shall we?

Do you disagree with his point about the culture of irresponsiblity and victimhood, or are you rather trying to change the subject to something not directly related?
It seems no one can raise a conservative point in here anymore without you going into some kind of personal attack on conservatives.

If you can show how Mr. Jobs has done something abusive or evil (other than donating to the Dems) feel free to start a thread on it!

And I'd argue that lawyers and such tend to be at least as greedy and corrupt as corporate types (and far more damaging to America).

And yes, I've known a number of liberals through my life, and argued with them. I have relatives who are die-hard Clinton-loving liberals. They say much the same kind of things as liberals on Phatmass.
I do not presume to know the hearts of liberals, but in good conscience I can only disagree with their ideas. Liberalism is wrong, whether those who hold its beliefs are personally evil or just mistaken. (I've seen both.)

The problem with your posts lately is that rather than simply attack conservative ideas or programs, you tend to ascribe motives such as "greed" or "political leverage" to conservatives across the board.

Does greed motivate me or Ironmonk or any of the other conservatives on here to be in favor of smaller government?

Is our opposition to abortion based on our political aspirations?

Your tactic of "turning the point around" on here has gotten rather old, and over 90% of the time simply doesn't work - such as ascribing immorality and dissent in the Church to "conservatism."

If you want others to respect your views, you should stick to debating the ideas - not just making meaningless attacks against the supposed motivations of "conservatives."

[Socrates]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Feb 2 2006, 07:17 PM']this is just like the people who sued mcdonalds for getting fat.  Frivolous lawsuits are not a "liberal" thing it's an american thing.  Learn the rules
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I know of no conservatives making or encouraging such lawsuits.

Conservatism is for personal responsibility.

Liberalism is about promoting a culture of victimhood, and making others pay for one's own bad choices.

[ironmonk]

"Extreme right" - this just kills me.

Liberals don't even know the meaning of right. People are "Right" if they think there is a right and wrong, conforming to justice, moral, etc....

"Extreme Justice" / "Extreme Morality" / "Extreme Do the Right Thing" = "Extreme Right"

How is it wrong to do what is right?!

Others are call left because they want to be opposite of right but they cannot call themselves wrong... The left extreme "Extreme do what you want", "Extreme do what feels good", "Extreme opposite of Right", "Extreme Emotion", "Extreme Lies"


[b] right
adj. right·er, right·est [/b]
1) Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or morality: do the right thing and confess.
2) In accordance with fact, reason, or truth; correct: the right answer.
3) Fitting, proper, or appropriate: It is not right to leave the party without saying goodbye.
4) Most favorable, desirable, or convenient: the right time to act.
5) In or into a satisfactory state or condition: put things right.
6) In good mental or physical health or order.


[b]Left[/b]
1) The people and groups who advocate liberal, often radical measures to effect change in the established order, especially in politics, usually to achieve the equality, freedom, and well-being of the common citizens of a state. Also called left wing.
2) The opinion of those advocating such measures.


Of course the above "equality, freedom, and well being" only applies to what their definition of equality is... keep your Catholicism to yourself but if you are muslim by all means please feel free to share, freedom as long as I like what you say or do, and well being as long as someone is voting for our side we will be the hand that feeds so they don't bite... there is no right or wrong... only opinion.... So what if the facts show that God is real, you can't tell me the facts without offending me..... Contraception, abortion, porn, co-habitation, same sex unions, unending welfare for people who are able to support themselves so they keep voting for you - but say it's to end poverty, etc...



"Extreme Right" - Is a good thing. It's not the opposite of left, it's the opposite of wrong.

"Extreme Left" - is not a good thing. It's not about right and left, it's about right and wrong.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[jezic]

things get off topic in a hurry here ....

Pretty soon people will sue others because they have the potential to sue them.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='jezic' date='Feb 2 2006, 09:38 PM']things get off topic in a hurry here ....

Pretty soon people will sue others because they have the potential to sue them.
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Did you hear about the guy who is sueing his online "buddies" for causing him mental harm in a chat room?








Actually, he "might" have something wrong with the way he thinks.


Of course he might have had some depression from something someone wrote in it, but to sue for it?

Freedom of speech... this includes insults.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 09:29 PM']Let's let Ironmonk speak for himself, shall we?
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OK, let's. He said:
[quote]This is a prime example of a lawsuit from a typical liberal that I have to deal with. People like this are just looking to cheat people and get out of working. [i]If this guy actually believes that Apple should be punished, it just goes to show how mindless he is.[/i] I've met far to many people like this one that think we have too much freedom and we need to be protected from ourselves... They've all been liberal dems. There is simply something wrong with the way most of them think. Just like the other thread I started shows.
[i]People are responsible for their own well being with cases like these.[/i] Any lawyer to take a case like this should be disbarred, and so should any judge that doesn't throw it out.[/quote]
I said:
[quote]Of course he'd rather talk about people's "sense of entitlement" than about "corporate responsibility." [/quote]
I summarized, based in large parts on the parts of Ironmonk's post quoted above. Was I wrong in my assessment of Ironmonk's intent with the post? My (sarcastic) comment in reply was intended as a response to IM's apparent belief that Apple could bear no responsibility for the injury due to misuse of their product.

I don't agree that companies are always guiltless in matters such as these. Not having read any of the pleadings in this case, I can't reasonably form an opinion about this particular case at this juncture. Neither can Ironmonk, but he apparently is unwilling to let the facts get in the way of his opinion. Perhaps I should have fleshed out my argument a little more fully. Instead, I opted for sarcasm.

[quote name='Socrates']It seems no one can raise a conservative point in here anymore without you going into some kind of personal attack on conservatives.[/quote]
Odd that you'd say that, as this very thread starts out stating that when it comes to "liberal dems," there's "simply something wrong with the way most of them think." IM says if the guy actually believes Apple should be punished he is "mindless," and says lawsuits such as this one filed by a "typical liberal" are intended to "cheat people" and suborn sloth. Oh wait, that's my words. He actually said "get out of working."

I read ALL of that as attacks on liberals. What, y'all can dish it out, but not take it?

[quote name='Socrates']If you can show how Mr. Jobs has done something abusive or evil (other than donating to the Dems) feel free to start a thread on it! 

And I'd argue that lawyers and such tend to be at least as greedy and corrupt as corporate types (and far more damaging to America).[/quote]
There are bad apples in every barrel. No argument from me on that one.

[quote name='Socrates']The problem with your posts lately  is that rather than simply attack conservative ideas or programs, you tend to ascribe motives such as "greed" or "political leverage" to conservatives across the board.[/quote]
Turn about is fair play. When I start seeing intelligent posts from conservative viewpoints that aren't rife with unnecessary insults and ridiculous editorializing, I'll be happy to respond in kind.

[quote name='Socrates']Your tactic of "turning the point around" on here has gotten rather old, and over 90% of the time simply doesn't work - such as ascribing immorality and dissent in the Church to "conservatism."

If you want others to respect your views, you should stick to debating the ideas - not just making meaningless attacks against the supposed motivations of "conservatives."[/quote]
Again, right back to you. I'm soooooooo tired of seeing the ranting. It's ridiculous. Just attacking "liberals" and their supposed motivations does nothing for me or anyone else except unnecessarily polarise people. This is supposed to be a debate board, and instead it's been a soapbox forum. We routinely have threads just like this one that rant against "liberals" and any attempt at intelligent discourse on the topic is immediately quelled by more ranting. I just got tired of it.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 2 2006, 04:19 PM']Right, so when I say that conservatives are greedy [b]dumbleknockers[/b] who use the unborn as political leverage, I don't mean everyone.
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Has someone been taking advantage of a name generator?

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 08:14 PM']Almost any stereo system or audio device can cause hearing loss if played at screamingly loud volumes.  They all have volume controls which can be turned up or down.  If someone lacks the good sense to listen to his music at reasonable levels, it is his fault, not that of the manufacturer.
[/quote]
Except that earphones are more likely to cause hearing loss than normal stereos.

[url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-0601280035jan28,1,1664604.story?coll=chi-techtopheds-hed"]CHECK IT[/url]

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 09:29 PM']I do not presume to know the hearts of liberals,
[/quote]
Come, come...we've all heard the opening lines...


"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of liberals?"

So-Crates knows!!

[desertwoman]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 09:32 PM']I know of no conservatives making or encouraging such lawsuits.

Conservatism is for personal responsibility.

Liberalism is about promoting a culture of victimhood, and making others pay for one's own bad choices.
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In your view, is it even [i]possible[/i] for someone who's conservative to file such a suit? So if someone filed such a suit, wouldn't they by (your) definition be "liberal"? If a conservative couldn't file such a suit, then it's no wonder you know of no conservatives making or encouraging them.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 06:14 PM']  They all have volume controls which can be turned up or down.  [right][snapback]873658[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Hey, there's a novel concept - if it's too loud, turn down the volume!