photosynthesis Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='track2004' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:20 PM']From my own experience (in dating relationships not marriage) submission just kind of happens because of how you feel for the other person. You learn to let them do certain things because they do them well, they learn to let you do the same. In relationships where there is mutual love and respect these things just happen. My ex and I had a discussion one time about our careers and what would happen to the family (if we had one... it's complicated). We basically said that my job (and I'm a girl) would probably be the breadwinning one. He'd stay home or do film shoots, but I would work. I want to work, I love my field, and he respects my decision about that enough to let me do that, for the best interest of the future family we may or may not have. It's hard to explain, but we submitted to each other and filled in each others gaps and just fit together.... then we broke up... it was because of distance tho, so yeah... [right][snapback]873196[/snapback][/right] [/quote] that was an issue for me and my ex too... when we were talking about marriage, we only had a tiny bit of hope that he might live. But I knew that even if he did, he still wouldn't be healthy enough to work in his chosen field so i would have to be the breadwinner... I can't imagine the strain that would have put on our relationship, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMNolan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I think there's another way of looking at submission (subordination) that needs to be pointed out when referring to Ephesians 5:21-33 For the man, Christ asks him to make a sacrifice for his wife parallel to Christ's own sacrifice for His Church. In marriage man must give everything he has to protect her, support her, and please her. This is a big part of what love is, choosing to sacrifice your own personal agenda for the well being of another. It is through the combined wisdom of both the husband and wife that decisions are made. For the woman, she is asked to be submissive - not as a slave to a master. Christ wants only the best for woman. They deserve a man who is willing to sacrifice for them. They deserve a man who chooses to love and protect and lay down his life for his spouse. By being submissive, a wife is allowing her husband to make the sacrifices that Christ intended for both of them. By submitting, she is agreeing to allow the man to carry out his vocation. This was all designed by God out of his love for us. By following this plan and this mindset, we can only become better people. Imagine if girls started to date guys based on their potential to be good role models for children and solid foundations on which to build a family. I bet guys would start to clean up their act a little more. And what if guys started courting females as precious beings whom Christ wants us to protect, not use. Well, maybe then females wouldn't feel like they have to look like supermodels. Now of course in this day in age many men are not holding out there end of the bargain. So many of us look at women as objects to use for our own gratification. In that case I, can't see how Christ would ask them to be submissive. An abusive, alcoholic, husband is not being the protector he should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='YMNolan' date='Feb 2 2006, 01:01 PM']I think there's another way of looking at submission (subordination) that needs to be pointed out when referring to Ephesians 5:21-33 For the man, Christ asks him to make a sacrifice for his wife parallel to Christ's own sacrifice for His Church. In marriage man must give everything he has to protect her, support her, and please her. This is a big part of what love is, choosing to sacrifice your own personal agenda for the well being of another. It is through the combined wisdom of both the husband and wife that decisions are made. For the woman, she is asked to be submissive - not as a slave to a master. Christ wants only the best for woman. They deserve a man who is willing to sacrifice for them. They deserve a man who chooses to love and protect and lay down his life for his spouse. By being submissive, a wife is allowing her husband to make the sacrifices that Christ intended for both of them. By submitting, she is agreeing to allow the man to carry out his vocation. This was all designed by God out of his love for us. By following this plan and this mindset, we can only become better people. Imagine if girls started to date guys based on their potential to be good role models for children and solid foundations on which to build a family. I bet guys would start to clean up their act a little more. And what if guys started courting females as precious beings whom Christ wants us to protect, not use. Well, maybe then females wouldn't feel like they have to look like supermodels. Now of course in this day in age many men are not holding out there end of the bargain. So many of us look at women as objects to use for our own gratification. In that case I, can't see how Christ would ask them to be submissive. An abusive, alcoholic, husband is not being the protector he should be. [right][snapback]873267[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well put. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benedictaj Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 And doesn't it say somewhere else that women should submit to their husbands - and husbands should lay down their lives for their wives, as Christ did for His Church? But I agree with YMNolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:31 PM']that was an issue for me and my ex too... when we were talking about marriage, we only had a tiny bit of hope that he might live. But I knew that even if he did, he still wouldn't be healthy enough to work in his chosen field so i would have to be the breadwinner... I can't imagine the strain that would have put on our relationship, though. [right][snapback]873227[/snapback][/right] [/quote] See our talk was nothing too serious... more like distant future talk, but the conclusion that I'd win all the bread wasn't a "have to" thing it was a "want to" thing. He was cool with that too, because his job will not be as regular. I wanted the job, wanted the career, and it's not a thing I could really do part time. Me having a full time job 40 hrs a week 50 weeks a year would be better for us (and for any family that might later exist) than him working 80 hrs a week in some distant location 30 weeks a year (working on a movie set somewhere). So it wouldn't be him unable to work, but us deciding my job is more apt for breadwinning.... I don't know I guess this just points out that every relationship is different and works different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Submission is not a bad thing , you just have to pick the correct person to be in charge. My husband refused to step up to the plate for any decision and left it all to me. It threw the entire relationship permanently out of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm very bossy as it is. Ask my little sibblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMNolan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Glad I could help, if there's any other important elements I left out, please share. I'm still learning this stuff myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 2 2006, 05:33 PM']I'm very bossy as it is. Ask my little sibblings. [right][snapback]873570[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No need. It was apparent enough. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Yikes, if you think I'm bossy on here, you really don't want to ever meet me in person. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:14 PM']most marriages I've seen don't even come close to Ephesians 5. I live in soap opera land. I don't think husbands have any special endowment that makes them more capable of making decisions or being the head of a household. However, SOMEONE has to be the head of a household. Someone must lead, someone must follow. That doesn't mean men are better suited for this than women but God did choose men to be the head of the household for a reason. [right][snapback]873186[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote]However, what I want you to understand is that Christ is the head of every man, man is the head of woman and God is the head of Christ.[/quote]1 Corinthians 11:3 In the Christian family, the man is given headship and authority over his wife. A man who does not act as head of his family is not doing his job. This includes not following the command to love his wife, and acting like a jerk or a petty tyrant. Because many men fail in their duties, this does not mean they should not aspire to them. Being head of a family (as being the head of anything) is not a license to do whatever one pleases and abuse his authority, but a serious duty, which a man will be judged on. If both men and women lived up to their respective duties, there would not be so much strife and problems in the married life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 2 2006, 06:44 PM']Yikes, if you think I'm bossy on here, you really don't want to ever meet me in person. : [right][snapback]873595[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yeah, you're so bossy you make [i]me[/i] choose what to do when we're together. Why can't you just let me submit to your decisions all the time? : Edited February 3, 2006 by Colleen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='track2004' date='Feb 2 2006, 06:40 PM']See our talk was nothing too serious... more like distant future talk, but the conclusion that I'd win all the bread wasn't a "have to" thing it was a "want to" thing. He was cool with that too, because his job will not be as regular. I wanted the job, wanted the career, and it's not a thing I could really do part time. Me having a full time job 40 hrs a week 50 weeks a year would be better for us (and for any family that might later exist) than him working 80 hrs a week in some distant location 30 weeks a year (working on a movie set somewhere). So it wouldn't be him unable to work, but us deciding my job is more apt for breadwinning.... I don't know I guess this just points out that every relationship is different and works different ways. [right][snapback]873502[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think if he could have done what he wanted to do (get a Ph.D and teach) I'd have been a lot happier being a stay at home mom and letting him work, than if I did what I wanted to do (be a journalist), even if it meant less money and a lot of sacrifices. It is ideal for the man to work so that the woman is able to be at home. As an unemployed bum, I am thoroughly enjoying drinking coffee and phatmassing and studying theology all day instead of working. although that won't last long. [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2006, 07:53 PM']1 Corinthians 11:3 In the Christian family, the man is given headship and authority over his wife. A man who does not act as head of his family is not doing his job. This includes not following the command to love his wife, and acting like a jerk or a petty tyrant. Because many men fail in their duties, this does not mean they should not aspire to them. Being head of a family (as being the head of anything) is not a license to do whatever one pleases and abuse his authority, but a serious duty, which a man will be judged on. If both men and women lived up to their respective duties, there would not be so much strife and problems in the married life. [right][snapback]873616[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree! One of my favorite JP2 quotes is "God has assigned to every man the dignity of every woman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 all this talk. HMPH! Keep the wimmins in the kitchens and the menfolk fed and workin'. That's all ya need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 3 2006, 12:00 AM']Keep the wimmins in the kitchens [/quote] I see you handily didn't give details as to what they should be doing in the kitchen. "She's an angel in the bedroom and a whore in the kitchen" "I thought it was the other way around" "Not last night" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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