Carrie Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 2 2006, 01:34 PM']Mutual submission, as outlined in Ephesians, the Theology of the Body, and numerous other teachings. [right][snapback]873118[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:06 PM']I believe that wies submit to their husbands, husbands submit to their wives as Christ loved the Church That being said, I have never seen this carried out in real life. [right][snapback]873172[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have. Not exactly perfectly, of course, but I know plenty of people who have solid working marriages in which there's mutual submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 how does submission play out if a woman makes a mistake and marries a dirty lying abusive unfaithful alcoholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:05 PM']If I understand the peacenik correctly, her problem is with your claim that all husbands are given authority to make unilateral decisions for their families and that wives just have to submit. [right][snapback]873171[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Then she has misunderstood each of my posts, or not read them thoroughly. Not once have I said that the husbands makes all the major decisions by himself. Nay, I said, he has the final decision with the input of the wife. He is the one who ultimately says yes or no, but not without input from the wife. This is assuming that he is a godly man. He will take into consideration what the wife has to say. There are times where my own husand has changed his original decision on a big decision after listening to what I had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:10 PM']how does submission play out if a woman makes a mistake and marries a dirty lying abusive unfaithful alcoholic? [right][snapback]873178[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The question would be first: Would the marriage be valid? Was the intent there on both parties to have a marriage. If not, she's not really married and seeks a disolution of the marriage. If it is valid, she seeks help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 most marriages I've seen don't even come close to Ephesians 5. I live in soap opera land. I don't think husbands have any special endowment that makes them more capable of making decisions or being the head of a household. However, SOMEONE has to be the head of a household. Someone must lead, someone must follow. That doesn't mean men are better suited for this than women but God did choose men to be the head of the household for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 In those occasions, it is possible for the wife to lead but yet still be submissive. It's a fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacenluvbaby Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:11 PM']He is the one who ultimately says yes or no, but not without input from the wife. This is assuming that he is a godly man. He will take into consideration what the wife has to say. [right][snapback]873179[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ah, my good name...yes I, the peacenik, have taken issue with the [color=purple]"he ultimately says yes or no" [/color]aspect of Mrs. Bro's statements. I don't think such a thing exists...automatically as an act of God for all marriages. I believe that both parties come to a mutual understanding through dialogue and at an impasse, they take turns about who gets to make the final "yay or nay". Sojourner...you understand me hurray!!!!! Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:10 PM']how does submission play out if a woman makes a mistake and marries a dirty lying abusive unfaithful alcoholic? [right][snapback]873178[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I posted this in the other thread as well: [quote]In fact, if the husband neglect his duty, it falls to the wife to take his place in directing the family. --Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Letter "Casti Connubii"[/quote] Also: [quote]This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; [b]nor does it bid her obey her husband's every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife[/b]; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. --Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Letter "Casti Connubii"[/quote] Edited February 2, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 From my own experience (in dating relationships not marriage) submission just kind of happens because of how you feel for the other person. You learn to let them do certain things because they do them well, they learn to let you do the same. In relationships where there is mutual love and respect these things just happen. My ex and I had a discussion one time about our careers and what would happen to the family (if we had one... it's complicated). We basically said that my job (and I'm a girl) would probably be the breadwinning one. He'd stay home or do film shoots, but I would work. I want to work, I love my field, and he respects my decision about that enough to let me do that, for the best interest of the future family we may or may not have. It's hard to explain, but we submitted to each other and filled in each others gaps and just fit together.... then we broke up... it was because of distance tho, so yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='peacenluvbaby' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:16 PM']I believe that both parties come to a [i]mutual understanding through dialogue [/i]and at an [i]impasse[/i], they take turns about who gets to make the final "yay or nay". [right][snapback]873189[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you sound like you went to my college hippie talk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I believe an important distinction here is this: When you love something, you leave that thing 'free'. Thus in his decision making, a man must remember not to impeech on his wife's freedom. It mifght sound contradictiory, but believe me its not. I can explain in detail, but right now I have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I think women should follow their husband's lead. Husbands should take what their wives want into consideration and act accordingly, but sometimes you just can't agree on things and in those instances I think the husband has authority. Of course, now that women are working it's all screwed up. women shouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) [quote name='peacenluvbaby' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:16 PM']I believe that both parties come to a mutual understanding through dialogue and at an impasse, they take turns about who gets to make the final "yay or nay". [right][snapback]873189[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Too many chiefs, not enough indians, as they say. A husband has to trust in his wife's wisdom, because it is her gift as a woman. But a wife also has to trust in his decisions as leader and head of the family, because it is HIS gift as a man. This doesn't mean whatever he commands is law, if not motivated by charity and right reason. But if a husband and a wife are both working with the mind of Christ, then the husband must have the role of leadership. A humble docility to this leadership is a virtue on the part of the wife. Edited February 2, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacenluvbaby Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:20 PM']you sound like you went to my college hippie talk.... [right][snapback]873197[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What college was that? And....I take "hippie talk" as a total compliment, regardless of how you intended it. BTW Didacus...Rock on! Peace out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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