Post-Modern Liberalism

[Desert Walker]

I just read about Cardinal Arinze's statements about the Church in Chad and how desperately they need priests and religious. I must say I am, quite frankly, fed up.

How in all HECK do we expect men and women to respond to God's call to serve in GOD'S CHURCH if GOD"S RELIGION has literally been raped of its own cultural identity?!

Before you jump to the conclusions liberals usually jump to upon hearing something like this allow me to explain my anger with a simple challenge:

Which was SIMPLER for the UNEDUCUTED human mind to grasp?

Traditional pre-Vatican II Catholicism with SIMPLE and CLEAR statements of faith and morality

or

"Contemporary" post-Vatican II Catholicism which doesn't even care that Vatican II did NOT want people to STOP talking about and presenting the Faith in those simple pre-council type statements?

You need a frikin PHD to be able to even READ some of this stuff! How do we expect to explain ourselves to the uneducated?

It's TOO complicated folks. That's my point. And it's only too complicated because of modern attempts to educate EVERYONE incompletely.

Anyway, I'm probably making no sense at this point so I'll just sit back and cool off.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Desert Walker

[jezic]

Well um no, i would reject the idea that Vatican II is not easy to read.

It is the fruit of contemplation and the work of the Holy Spirit. It seeks the heart of who we are as Catholics.

It did not change any big piece of doctrine so all of the "traditional pre-VII" stuff for the most part still goes. It did "modernize" things a little bit, but the council did not intend for some things to be like they are now.

Everything was not just peachy before it either. The Church needed some changes, though there are those who will disagree about how much. It did need something.

[Era Might]

The Church's teaching today is no less simple or clear. Heck, it was John Paul II who issued the first universal Catechism since Trent.

The problem today is that the West in general has lost its Christian identity. Catholics have been swept up in this social circumstance, and it has, of course, affected the local Churches.

But the problem in Chad, I don't think, is dissent. It's a third world nation, and this alone makes vocations very difficult. The faith is spreading fast in Africa, but the resources just aren't there. Priests barely have materials to offer Mass.

The Church's presentation of its faith changes in every age. The presentation of Trent is vastly advanced from the presentation, say, of NIcaea, or earlier, from the Council of Jerusalem. This is necessary to the progression of her Tradition. But the core always remains the same, and the believer today has the same opportunity to know and live the faith. Yes, there are catechesis problems in the local Churches, but we have the blessing of so many alternatives, from print, to audio, to the Internet. The information is out there. Seek, and you shall find.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Era Might

[Socrates]

[quote name='jezic' date='Feb 1 2006, 02:50 PM']Well um no, i would reject the idea that Vatican II is not easy to read.

It is the fruit of contemplation and the work of the Holy Spirit. It seeks the heart of who we are as Catholics.

It did not change any big piece of doctrine so all of the "traditional pre-VII" stuff for the most part still goes. It did "modernize" things a little bit, but the council did not intend for some things to be like they are now.

Everything was not just peachy before it either. The Church needed some changes, though there are those who will disagree about how much. It did need something.
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The biggest lie about Vatican II is that VII did away with everything that came before it, and was basically to start Catholicism over from scratch.

It's interesting how most people who proclaim the "Spirit of Vatican II" could probably not tell you anything about what the council said!

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 1 2006, 08:28 PM']The biggest lie about Vatican II is that VII did away with everything that came before it, and was basically to start Catholicism over from scratch.

It's interesting how most people who proclaim the "Spirit of Vatican II" could probably not tell you anything about what the council said!
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amen!

I think that the documents of Vatican II are a heck of a lot easier to read than older documents, but that's probably because they are written in more modern language. Also, much of the Catholic Church outside the United States (especially in Africa and Latin America) is more conservative an probably has interpreted Vatican II in a more orthodox way than the US Council of Bishops has. The vocations crisis in Chad probably has more to do with cultural and economic factors than with Vatican II.

[Desert Walker]

Perhaps I'm projecting the way I feel about the vocation crisis in the United States to the one in Chad. Having never lived in or visited Chad I guess I'm no authority on its crises.

Be that is it may, regarding the shortage of priests in the culturally European world, I think it is primarily because Catholicism no longer has a unique cultural identity. It had one once. It was called European Christendom. But the Reformation slaughtered that and now all we've got is an amalgamation of secular post-modernism and Catholic doctrine and practice. I tell you THAT is NOT a beautiful environment in which to be an historically aware Catholic.

At this point, many a lover of this "modern" brand of Catholicism might say: "Oh none of that matters, we're an evolving church. We've got to keep up with the times you know. Times are changing." I've heard that so much from the left I want to puke. Times may change but PEOPLE DO NOT!!! And if we don't reestablish a Catholic CUTLURAL identity that actually sculpts CATHOLIC human beings then the shortage of priests will continue. Why? Because the priesthood is viewed by many as no different than a secular career needing to be liberated from the discipline of celibacy for the sake of compatibility with "modern" men. This is a farce ladies and gentlemen! The concept of the priesthood needs to be returned to its MYSTICAL roots. It's too secular. Young priests are seeing this and behaving accordingly more orthodox. I have a feeling most of today's Catholic youth are looking up to these priests.

What is needed is a return to our Catholic cultural roots. Doing this NOW with the knowledge we've gained from Vatican II about how to do things BETTER will coincide, I predict, with a second Pentecost which has been spoken about so much in the Marian cults.

But if we hang on to the leftist worldview of the Enlightenment and the cultural revolutions of the 20th century, we will continue on a path of mediocrity, of lukewarmness. And Christ will vomit the American Catholic Church out of His mouth.