peach_cube Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 we're not biting into jesus's thigh when we recieve him in the eucharist, we're recieving his body, blood, soul, and divinity... You lost me there.... wouldn't Jesus' thigh be every bit as much body, blood, soul, and divinty as the Eucharist? Technically, then we would be biting into His thigh as well as the rest of His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. So you don't believe in any Eucharistic Miracles? Not even if one happened before your very eyes? I would just like to understand. inDouche you are free on this matter to chose whether to believe or not, just as you are free to believe the Miracles at Lourdes, Fatima, etc. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiringMore Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Now the Orthodox are in a nebulus state of communion so they might actually have miracles, but protestants, who hate Christ Bride, and hate his mother, they have no communion miracles do not occur among them. I DON'T think that Protestants HATE the Christ Bride, or his mother, BUT i do think there is a huge misunderstanding and misconceptions about Mary that Protestants seem to hate her, but that is not true... how can you hate the mother of Jesus, the one who was willing to say YES so that Jesus could come and dwell among us in the flesh and die upon a cross to save us all? hate is a harsh word...as for me, i do not hate....Most DON'T understand why Catholics honor Mary and put her in high regard...and unfortunately they leave it at that...but some, like myself, desire truth, so instead of being satisfied with not understanding, i choose to learn more by being with other Catholics, go to CL, go to Mass, ask questions i want answers to, even when the answers are ones that i may not want to hear....to seek truth, you must be willing and open to receive the answers...you must keep questioning and desiring more!! By being with some of my closest friends, i have learned so much and some of the misconceptions/misunderstandings i have had have been cleared up and i'm starting to understand to the point of belief.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) i think eucharistic miracles are contrary to thhe nature of the catholic faith, we accept christ's presence in the eucharist by seeing with " the eyes of the soul". we are given a thing that our reason cannot demonstrate to us and told to believe it; i don't see why god would hand us something not demonstrable by reason to believe and then bolster it by a miracle that in the first place is up to us to accept or reject and that in the second place can be harmful to one's immortal soul if it is offered adoration rather than veneration---we're not allowed to adore eucharistic miracles, because even if they are actually miracles christ isn't sacramentally present (that's from aquinas, who actually did believe in eucharistic miracles). Edited December 15, 2003 by hyperdulia again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 we're not allowed to adore eucharistic miracles, because even if they are actually miracles christ isn't sacramentally present I never said we had to 'adore' them. But we're allowed to believe that they are miracles from God. i don't see why god would hand us something not demonstrable by reason to believe and then bolster it by a miracle that in the first place is up to us to accept or reject The Son of God told the Jews in the New Testament to believe in Him (it went against all reason) and bolstered belief with miracles, which they either accepted or rejected. What about all the miracles today that bolster our faith in the Resurrection or our Blessed Mother? Those aren't exactly demonstrable by reason to believe, but God still gives them to us to strengthen our faith. Religion is ultimately faith. Miracles aid faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) What is an incorruptible? :huh: Edited December 15, 2003 by Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 and lilac i've done the best i can do at explaining why i don't think these miracles aid the faith, but i state once again you are free to believe without cennsure, and i am free to not believe also without censure. and taht btw is the difference between accepting or rejecting miracles that are part of the deposit of faith and those that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZmeFly Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) nm Edited December 15, 2003 by ZmeFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 zmefly, i must demand that you go back and read akll of my posts..you're talking about the eucharist (which all catholics are bound to believe in), we are talking about eucharistic miracles(which we are free to accept or reject). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) Ryan: "There is a phenomenon in the Catholic Church, that of incorrupt bodies of certain saints. Of these, it is estimated that less than one percent are due to extensive embalming. The church classifies these as relics of the saints. They are unique because they defy the laws of nature. Some bodies are still completely incorrupt, some have begun the normal process of a deceased body while others were incorrupt for years but due to the normal processes (God permitting) they are now buried. One might consider the incorrupt body of a Catholic saint as a sign of holiness. In fact, many miracles have occurred through the veneration of these relics. One might also view this phenomenon as a call to holiness. Certainly their existence should move one to further reading and contemplation." http://members.aol.com/ccmail/incorruptbodies.html Joan Cruz (who also wrote a book on Eucharistic miracles) wrote The Incorruptibles; it has a TON of incorrupt saints documented as incorrupt, even in completely unlikely circumstances (i.e. excessive moisture/mud). Edited December 15, 2003 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZmeFly Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) I was confused!! Yes i too am not quick of beliveing non-approved miricles. I don't have enough evidence either to come to a stand on them. Most of that is because of my lack of study on the topic. Edited December 15, 2003 by ZmeFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Cmom-- No I have not. The Church approves miracles, only She can define them in 2000 years She has never recognized one outside of the Communion of the Church, IO cannot prove that She has not because it is not possable to Prove a negative. It Has not happened. The Church has investigated many, many miracles and has never found one to be a legetiment miracle that has not originated within the Church. If I am wrong show me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Speaking of Church miracles, the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano is nothing to be scoffed at. hehehe. Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist. The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano You can see a picture on the page. The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs. Kind of like how the miraculous tilma of Guadelupe was studied. Hi, Lilac.. Thank you for posting this great link! I never even heard of this before! Can you tell me of any good books I can read about miracles? Thanks! God bless! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hi, MrsFrozen. Yeah, I've never heard of it before either until a priest at St. Sebastian's brought it up in a homily! I was transfixed. These books by Joan C. Cruz are books containing many, many miracles. I have most of them (thank goodness for Half.com), but I haven't had the time to read the majority of them just yet. But I did look through all of them, and they're just packed with miracles. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Hi, MrsFrozen. Yeah, I've never heard of it before either until a priest at St. Sebastian's brought it up in a homily! I was transfixed. These books by Joan C. Cruz are books containing many, many miracles. I have most of them (thank goodness for Half.com), but I haven't had the time to read the majority of them just yet. But I did look through all of them, and they're just packed with miracles. God bless! Hi, Lilac.. Thank you so much for the book recommendations!!! I'm going to look into getting these. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 MrsFrozen: Cool! Anytime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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