avemaria40 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 [quote name='Luthien' date='Feb 7 2006, 04:08 PM']They may take our bodies, but they cannot take our souls. [right][snapback]879095[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 11:08 AM']As I have been saying for a while... islam is not about peace... it's about pieces... pieces of bodies, pieces of land, pieces of bombs... etc.... [right][snapback]878778[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The problem isn't the religion, it's the people following the religion. Lebanon's a prime example. The Sunni Majority there is against extreme acts. The Muslims in America would mostly say that people doing stupid stuff like this are not following the Koran correctly. It's people that are a bit backwards in thinking that have this barbaric outlook to Islam. "in ways that spring from noble Islamic values and principles." Qabbani(a Muslim leader giving the view of Islam in this situation) stressed the need for "self-restraint." The Makassed Philanthropic Islamic Association of Beirut strongly condemned the riots in Achrafieh and the attacks that followed in a statement released after the morning's incident. "The riots, vandalism and the attack on churches and religious divinities are a destruction of national unity." The association also condemned the Danish newspaper's acts and announced that it is ready to help the residents, office and shop owners of Achrafieh to "repair the damages." I personally oppose the whole idea of it being protested in the first place. [url="http://lebaneselobby.org/News__index/news%...emn%20riots.htm"]http://lebaneselobby.org/News__index/news%...emn%20riots.htm[/url] Its not soo much Islam the problem, it's obvious that Muslims are willng to work with Christians in some areas. Many Muslims were offended by this but not all of them feel that you must destroy things to make a point. Btw if you didnt read all my posts above, the attack was mostly by non Lebanese citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I think the cartoons fall under the Right to Free Speech, or at least they should. It was not wise for any newspaper to print or reprint them, but it is their right. The cartoons were pretty mild, and there would have been a different reaction for any other religion, idolatry or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I read on a german website, deutsche welle, that 9 people have been killed in the riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 7 2006, 05:11 PM']The problem isn't the religion, it's the people following the religion. Lebanon's a prime example. The Sunni Majority there is against extreme acts. The Muslims in America would mostly say that people doing stupid stuff like this are not following the Koran correctly. It's people that are a bit backwards in thinking that have this barbaric outlook to Islam. "in ways that spring from noble Islamic values and principles." Qabbani(a Muslim leader giving the view of Islam in this situation) stressed the need for "self-restraint." The Makassed Philanthropic Islamic Association of Beirut strongly condemned the riots in Achrafieh and the attacks that followed in a statement released after the morning's incident. "The riots, vandalism and the attack on churches and religious divinities are a destruction of national unity." The association also condemned the Danish newspaper's acts and announced that it is ready to help the residents, office and shop owners of Achrafieh to "repair the damages." I personally oppose the whole idea of it being protested in the first place. [url="http://lebaneselobby.org/News__index/news%...emn%20riots.htm"]http://lebaneselobby.org/News__index/news%...emn%20riots.htm[/url] Its not soo much Islam the problem, it's obvious that Muslims are willng to work with Christians in some areas. Many Muslims were offended by this but not all of them feel that you must destroy things to make a point. Btw if you didnt read all my posts above, the attack was mostly by non Lebanese citizens. [right][snapback]879169[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree. It's the religion. It teaches to chop off hands for stealing... if your 10 year old daughter steals, they can take her right there and cut off her hands legally and according to their morals. No pain killer. No surgery room. Right there on the street. Now, there are some good people that are in the religion that actually want peace.... but the problem is the religion. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Islam translates to "Submission". From a Catholic perspective we might assume that this means to be humble... but I do not believe this is the case. [quote]34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) [b]beat them [/b](lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). [/quote] Topic based Quran readings... [url="http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM"]http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM[/url] I'll try to find more when I have time... I read excerts somewhere once that are pretty bad. I'll try to find them and their context. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 08:02 PM']Islam translates to "Submission". From a Catholic perspective we might assume that this means to be humble... but I do not believe this is the case. Topic based Quran readings... [url="http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM"]http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM[/url] I'll try to find more when I have time... I read excerts somewhere once that are pretty bad. I'll try to find them and their context. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]879574[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I totally agree... read this [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp"]article[/url] about what Catholic.com calls the Endless Jihad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 06:42 PM']I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree. It's the religion. It teaches to chop off hands for stealing... if your 10 year old daughter steals, they can take her right there and cut off her hands legally and according to their morals. No pain killer. No surgery room. Right there on the street. Now, there are some good people that are in the religion that actually want peace.... but the problem is the religion. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]879550[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ironmonk, I understand your logic. However, you have to look at the scholars who argued it. The people who [b]represent[/b] the majority of the muslims (at least the sunnis) in Lebanon said that he was against the attacks. It's how backward the people themselves are. Look at America, the major Muslims scholars of America came together and declared it a haram to partake in terrorist acts. In a lot of the countries, it's sometimes manipulation by the government. Prime example: the President of Syria is not an extremist Muslim but supports them. Why is that? With their support, he is more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 07:02 PM']Islam translates to "Submission". From a Catholic perspective we might assume that this means to be humble... but I do not believe this is the case. Topic based Quran readings... [url="http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM"]http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/TOPICI.HTM[/url] I'll try to find more when I have time... I read excerts somewhere once that are pretty bad. I'll try to find them and their context. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]879574[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I know what you're saying about the wife beating (although a little random lol). Here's something to help put it in perspective. It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush. Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43) Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, adds: "If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one. [url="http://www.islamicfinder.org/articles/article.php?id=307&print=1&lang="]http://www.islamicfinder.org/articles/arti...7&print=1&lang=[/url] Most importantly (also from the page) d. True following of the Sunnah is to follow the example of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) who never resorted to that measure, regardless of the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Pictures of Mohammed: intolerable, and should be met with violence against non-combatants. Islamic violence against non-combatants: excusable. We should be more tolerant. I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell to anyone who agrees with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Muslims can either be a protested class of citizens and get "special" treatment or they can be equal citizens. They cannot, however, be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 06:42 PM'][snip] No pain killer. No surgery room. Right there on the street. Now, there are some good people that are in the religion that actually want peace.... but the problem is the religion. God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]879550[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I bet you see a lot less thieves in those streets than ours!? And I also bet that men who rape women can only do so once in their lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Actually if a woman gets raped they are often killed by their family because they have disgraced and brought shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 8 2006, 09:52 AM']Actually if a woman gets raped they are often killed by their family because they have disgraced and brought shame. [right][snapback]880265[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well I can't say I agree with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='Didacus' date='Feb 8 2006, 04:57 PM']Well I can't say I agree with that... [right][snapback]880393[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Happens...you ever read Daniel Ali's book 'Inside Islam'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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