Global Warming is a hoax.

[Iacobus]

Oh, and the ice on Greenlands surface is up to one km thick.

[Desert Walker]

When I was kid and I read my first book on the planet Venus I thought that one day humans were going to turn the Earth into Venus' twin. Venus has an atmosphere so DENSE with carbon dioxide that nearly all of the heat from the Sun is trapped beneath the planet's clouds. There's not a cool spot on it in other words.

Venus is the perfect example of what the "green house effect" means for a planet. But I don't think that human beings are warming this planet's overall temperature. We're really not producing enough carbon dioxide.

But while global warming is only threatening political careers, the pollutants of this money driven industrial age are destroying the SURFACE environment of this planet. Guess what folks, we live on the surface of this planet. The pollutants of this industrial world are a major threat to our health. So while the temperature will probably remain the same until the next ice age hits us, people who live in places like Mexico City, New York, and elsewhere might suffocate to death because human beings refuse to transport themselves in any way other than a vehicle which burns a deadly chemical substance in order get itself going .

[Desert Walker]

One additional thing: I've heard speculation coming out of the astronomical community that the Sun is getting hotter..........



Maybe that's where the global warming data is coming from.

I suppose we could blame the Sun getting hotter on Bush........?



shameless

Edited February 2, 2006 by Desert Walker

[ironmonk]

That means venus must once have had humans and Bush was their president. Look what Bush caused on Venus! What a pig!

hmmmm.... Prove it to me an air temp image from every week for the last 500 years, then I might believe it.

Record temps have been the hottest in 80 or so years... hmmm... the earth's been this hot before and it cooled? hmmmm... why did it get that hot? why? hmmmm... gases from volcanoes? hmmm.... more ice melts, causing more clouds, causing a minor cool down, then more ice forms from moisture, more sun can get through the clouds, earth surface heats up again until it starts over.

hmmm... a knowledge of temp history, chemistry, and common sense goes a long way to keeping someone from being a chicken little.

The sky is not falling.

[morostheos]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 2 2006, 03:22 PM']That means venus must once have had humans and Bush was their president. Look what Bush caused on Venus! What a pig!

hmmmm.... Prove it to me an air temp image from every week for the last 500 years, then I might believe it.

Record temps have been the hottest in 80 or so years... hmmm... the earth's been this hot before and it cooled? hmmmm... why did it get that hot? why? hmmmm... gases from volcanoes? hmmm.... more ice melts, causing more clouds, causing a minor cool down, then more ice forms from moisture, more sun can get through the clouds, earth surface heats up again until it starts over.

hmmm... a knowledge of temp history, chemistry, and common sense goes a long way to keeping someone from being a chicken little.

The sky is not falling.
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Ok, please provide some sources for all of these new emissions coming from volcanoes! In theological debates you are always one of the first to insist people cite sources and not just state things they "know." It seems unfair for you to not do the same for a scientific debate.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Feb 2 2006, 01:32 PM']Ok, please provide some sources for all of these new emissions coming from volcanoes!  In theological debates you are always one of the first to insist people cite sources and not just state things they "know."  It seems unfair for you to not do the same for a scientific debate.
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Honestly I don't even think there are enough volcanic emmissions either. I am thoroughly convinced we are on the brink of another ice age. Or a pole shift.

I believe that the primary reason global warming is not a problem is that our planet is in an orbit that is not shifting. Our position from the Sun ultimately determines the ability of this planet to sustain a thriving biosphere. That factor is WAAYY too big for us puny humans to effect.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Feb 2 2006, 03:32 PM']Ok, please provide some sources for all of these new emissions coming from volcanoes!  In theological debates you are always one of the first to insist people cite sources and not just state things they "know."  It seems unfair for you to not do the same for a scientific debate.
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I learned it in 12 grade chemistry 2 (honors) before the world wide web (1991) or I would be able to cite a source.

Although I did learn that about 30 eruptions happen every year on some geological site a few years ago, I'll try to find more when time permits.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Here's a little...

[url="http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Projects/Emissions/vgas_fsheet.html"]http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Projects/Emissio...gas_fsheet.html[/url]

I'll try to find more as I can.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[morostheos]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 2 2006, 04:09 PM']Here's a little...

[url="http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Projects/Emissions/vgas_fsheet.html"]http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Projects/Emissio...gas_fsheet.html[/url]

I'll try to find more as I can.

God Bless,
ironmonk
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Thanks!

Now, can you explain to me (or cite) how these volcanic gas emissions are greater currently than they have been throughout history, contributing to global warming? I am not aware of any evidence of this.

Edit: I know volcanoes release greenhouse gases, but they have been doing so as long as there have been volcanoes. Emitting greenhouse gases doesn't necessarily mean causing global warming.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Feb 2 2006, 04:30 PM']Thanks!

Now, can you explain to me (or cite) how these volcanic gas emissions are greater currently than they have been throughout history, contributing to global warming?  I am not aware of any evidence of this.

Edit: I know volcanoes release greenhouse gases, but they have been doing so as long as there have been volcanoes.  Emitting greenhouse gases doesn't necessarily mean causing global warming.
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In 12th grade what was taught was that the amount of greenhouse gases and pollution that one volcano releases is more than we as humans can do in ten thousand years.

What I learned in 12th grade and coupled with historical temperature readings and some basic reasoning proves that global warming is not happening OR at best we do NOT have enough data to say global warming is real.

[morostheos]

Raw amounts don't really have much to do with global warming. It is the changes in the amounts of greenhouse gases that may cause global warming. Sure, volcanoes produce a lot of gases. They have probably always produced those gases though. Greenhouse gases released into the air from burning fossil fuels would not have been released if we had not mined and burned them in the first place. A glass can sit full to the brim for 100 years, and it won't overflow until someone adds a couple more drops to the glass.

[Aloysius]

of course, there is no evidence that there was ever a "brim" or that we were on the edge of that brim. the amount of gases from volcano eruptions is completely plastic throughout history depending on how many are dormant and active at the time. there certainly have been ages in the past with many more volcanoes erupting than there are right now, as well as ages in the past with many less erupting. the increments the volcanic polluntantes change in, even if it's just by one volcano in one year, is astronomically higher than any increment we could be adding.

[morostheos]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Feb 2 2006, 05:01 PM']of course, there is no evidence that there was ever a "brim" or that we were on the edge of that brim.  the amount of gases from volcano eruptions is completely plastic throughout history depending on how many are dormant and active at the time.  there certainly have been ages in the past with many more volcanoes erupting than there are right now, as well as ages in the past with many less erupting.  the increments the volcanic polluntantes change in, even if it's just by one volcano in one year, is astronomically higher than any increment we could be adding.
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Could you provide some documentation for that? Say amount of gases emitted by a volcano vs. amount of gases emitted by human causes in the world for one year? Do you have any records of the changes in volcanic eruptions throughout history?

Also, what do you mean by "any increment we could be adding"? In large, the amount of greenhouse gases emitted from human causes is quantifiable. Do you doubt those calculations?

[Aloysius]

meaning that we have the capacity to add, that we are able to add, et cetera.

I'll see what I can find in terms of numbers. I don't know the numbers of the gases, but it is true that dormant and active volcanoes do not remain static any more than the number of earthquakes remain static. It depends on the shifting of tectonic plates and all that, and that differs by cycles in the earth.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:53 PM']Raw amounts don't really have much to do with global warming.  It is the changes in the amounts of greenhouse gases that may cause global warming.  Sure, volcanoes produce a lot of gases.  They have probably always produced those gases though.  Greenhouse gases released into the air from burning fossil fuels would not have been released if we had not mined and burned them in the first place.  A glass can sit full to the brim for 100 years, and it won't overflow until someone adds a couple more drops to the glass.
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Thank you for agreeing/supporting what I have been trying to explain all along about the overflow thing.

This is from CEN, Dec 15, 2003.

[quote]Much research confirms that something on the order of this amount of heat (two watts of heat per sq meter) applied continuously for many years has contributed significantly to the rise in the global average surface temperature from  0.7-0.8* C observed since 1900. Study of climate history has shown that small forces, maintained long enough, can cause climate change. Unless huge reductions are made in fossil fuel use, the atomospheric CO2 concentrations, now at 370 ppm (parts per million), is expected to reach 560-1000 ppm by the end of this century. This will raise the heating due to greenhouse gases to at least 3 W per m^2 and the average global temperature a further 1.4-5.8*C.[/quote]

[quote]Confusion: Myths About Past Temperatures in Greenland and England

Several myths create confusion about past global temperatures, says Michael E. Mann, assistant professor of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia. Climate change skeptics use these misconceptions to try and show that there were periods during the past millennium when global temperatures were higher then they have been in recent years.

One myth is that Greenland was much warmer during the so-called medieval warm period then it is today, and that warmth enabled the Norse to sttle there. The truth is that a few hundred Norse settled in the fjord region of southwest Greenland beginning in 986 because it was the warmest part of the island, as it is today, Mann says.

The settlements collapsed totally by 1500, not primarily because of climate change, but because of social factors, Man argues. Shipping routes changed, and the inhabitants had no way to get supplies or sell their products. The regional cooling in Greenland that set in between 1000 and 14000 was of the order of 1 * C or less--- "not that kind of cooling that going to cause massive upheaval," he explains.

Another myth is that grapes could be grown in England during the medieval times but have not been cultivated there recently. "However, there are roughly 10 times as many vineyards in England today than at the height of the so-called medieval warm period," Mann explains. England has never been a major wine-producing region, not in medieval times and not today, he notes. However, "it has been suitable for grape growing for most of the past 1,000 years."[/quote]

[quote]The CO2 concentraion increased from 280 ppm in preindustrial times to 368 ppm in 2000, and there are no indications that its rate of increase in slowing greatly or stopping. IPCC projects that the CO2 level will rise to 580 ppm by midcentury and about 840 ppm by 2100, if trends continue.



The methane level rose from about 700 ppb in preindustrial times to about 1,750 ppb in 2000. The abundance of nitrous oxide grew from 270 ppb to 314 ppb. The average level of tropospheric O3 increased from 25 dobson units to 34 dobson units (one dobson unit equalx 2.7X10^16 O3 mlc per cubic meter of air).[/quote]

I would send the graphic I am looking at but CEN is published by the American Chemical Society and the college's access to that database isn't work for me, so I will some it up. Using proxy temp data, a chart showing temp change from year 200 to 2000 can be created. If a line is the mean temp between 1961 and 1990, then never in the past 800 years has the temp been equal to that line. Adjusting for a 95% CI, the data is never more then 0.2 above the line. The data point for 2000 is at .6 above the line. Never has a spike of that size been seen. It is thought to be human created as it starts almost on the nose of 1900.